1st Test v Sri Lanka at the GABBA

[Rossoneri]

One sided Cricket is boring. You can still be entertained by a one-sided Basketball game or Football game, because there is still alot of action.

And with the NBA on a side note. Rossoneri, not to bash you or anything, but the top 6 in each conferance is far from set. Unless you ment there are 6 teams in each conferance that are set to make the play-offs. Then you are right.

But hey, lets contineu talking about this summer of cricket.

I was saying that in the NBA, you know before a ball has been shot in anger that the Lakers, Spurs, Rockets, Celtics, Mavericks, Suns will make the playoffs. And they will continue to do so for the next few years. As a general follower like myself, I find that boring.
You, being an avid follower, will hope your team wins every match by 40 points.

My whole point on this is that it depends on how seriously you follow the sport as to whether you would like to see a contest of not.

Anyway, lets not hijack this thread just yet. I would love to see us punish every nation over and over again, especially the sub-continent teams and the Poms and Seth Efrica.

[bomberdonnie]

On the point that we should lay off Murali and his disgrace of an action because the game would be even more lopsided just does not wash with me...

Does this mean that we should let a nominated player from Bangladesh bowl from 15 yards or a player from the West Indies bat with a 2 foot wide bat??

The guy is a cheat and his action is horrible and should not be playing the game

End Rant!!

[BenDoolan]

Congratulations to Stuart MacGill on 200 test wickets. 3rd fastest to that feat. He has bowled well and without luck in this test.

And Brett Lee is bowling incredibly well. He is actually thinking about his bowling, and bowling a tight line. His bowling spell this morning has been sensational.

[Boyler_Room]

On the point that we should lay off Murali and his disgrace of an action because the game would be even more lopsided just does not wash with me...

Does this mean that we should let a nominated player from Bangladesh bowl from 15 yards or a player from the West Indies bat with a 2 foot wide bat??

The guy is a cheat and his action is horrible and should not be playing the game

End Rant!!

What he said!

Well bowled Brett Lee. 8 for the match. Seemed to be really thinking about his bowling rather than just pelting them down the wicket to see how fast he can bowl. Johnson was owling well, as was Clark. All round good effort with the ball.

Only shame of the match was Murali taking 2 wickets, bringing him closer to Warne... not that any of them should actually count, but anyway.

[boncer34]

f****** Aussies. Have barely seen any of the test, finished work at 2 today and thought great! I'll see some cricket. f****** pricks. 5 to 2

[CameronClayton]

On the point that we should lay off Murali and his disgrace of an action because the game would be even more lopsided just does not wash with me...

Does this mean that we should let a nominated player from Bangladesh bowl from 15 yards or a player from the West Indies bat with a 2 foot wide bat??

The guy is a cheat and his action is horrible and should not be playing the game

End Rant!!

His arm is permanently crooked, if he bowled with a straight arm than that would be a chuck. You couldn't straighten out his arm if you tied him to 2 tractors & told them to go in different directions.

He is an easy, soft target just because he has a 'gammy' arm. If he bowled all the time in long sleeves, a la Greg Matthews, no-one would ever had known that he bowled with a bend in his arm.

And getting back to our domination over the last 15 odd years, it's like the Bombers 2000 season & I reckon after the 8th or 9th premiership in a row (winning all GF's by an average of 100 points), then I would be wanting some competition also. Imagine going to the MCG on Anzac Day with only 60,000 in the crowd because the Pie supporters don't bother turning up anymore - how F****** boring would that be! You gotta gloat to someone when you win.

I'd take 8 or 9 flags in a row, but 15 in a row would decimate the competition, & it would get bloody boring, just like cricket is now.

People need to ask themselves why did the cricket ratings go through the roof when the Poms finally took it up to us in the 2005 tour in the UK. We lost, yet more people watched than ever. True sport lovers crave competition.

[jimmyc1985]

His arm is permanently crooked, if he bowled with a straight arm than that would be a chuck. You couldn't straighten out his arm if you tied him to 2 tractors & told them to go in different directions.

He is an easy, soft target just because he has a 'gammy' arm. If he bowled all the time in long sleeves, a la Greg Matthews, no-one would ever had known that he bowled with a bend in his arm.

And getting back to our domination over the last 15 odd years, it's like the Bombers 2000 season & I reckon after the 8th or 9th premiership in a row (winning all GF's by an average of 100 points), then I would be wanting some competition also. Imagine going to the MCG on Anzac Day with only 60,000 in the crowd because the Pie supporters don't bother turning up anymore - how F****** boring would that be! You gotta gloat to someone when you win.

I'd take 8 or 9 flags in a row, but 15 in a row would decimate the competition, & it would get bloody boring, just like cricket is now.

People need to ask themselves why did the cricket ratings go through the roof when the Poms finally took it up to us in the 2005 tour in the UK. We lost, yet more people watched than ever. True sport lovers crave competition.

But again, the fact i'd also enjoy seeing more even Test series being played in Australia doesn't excuse the fact that Murali cheats. And Murali does cheat - they've changed the rules twice to accommodate his action which has meant his off-break is now legal, but his doosra is still a throw. I'll never be convinced to the contrary until they can somehow measure the angle of the bend in his arm during an actual match, rather than in a contrived setting where he can make sure his arm doesn't bend too much.

If we won 8 or 9 premierships in a row, yes, i'd probably get a bit sick of it too, but my response to this hypothetical would be along the lines of: "bloody hell, why don't the other 15 teams pull their fingers out, analyse what we're doing, and implement a plan to improve so they can become competitive with us" as opposed to your line of thought which seems to be: "let's give the other 15 teams all the draft picks and never penalise them at the tribunal so they can become competitive with Essendon".

Excusing Murali's cheating on the grounds that it makes cricket more competitive is like saying "i'm sick of seeing Federer win all the time, so to make it more interesting, i'm happy for Nadal, Djokovic, Roddick and Nalbandian to take drugs", or "i'm sick of seeing Tiger Woods win all the time, so let's give Mickelson/Singh/Scott/Els special equipment so they can hit the ball farther and straighter and compete with Woods". Just doesn't do it for me.

[BenDoolan]

His arm is permanently crooked, if he bowled with a straight arm than that would be a chuck. You couldn't straighten out his arm if you tied him to 2 tractors & told them to go in different directions.

He is an easy, soft target just because he has a 'gammy' arm. If he bowled all the time in long sleeves, a la Greg Matthews, no-one would ever had known that he bowled with a bend in his arm.

The laws of the game say you can't straighten your arm at all. Law 24 part 3...

http://www.lords.org/laws-and-spirit/la ... 50,AR.html

According to the laboratory in WA, Murali bowls with a flexion hovering around 10 degrees on his normal deliveries, and it was once reported that his doosra was bowled with a 17 degree flexion.

The handling of throwing in cricket is now farcical. The umpire would normally call no-ball if he believed there was a straightening of the arm, in accordance with Law 24 part 3. This could be called by the square leg umpire or the central umpire. Because of the ridiculous furore caused by Murali being called, umpires are now instructed to "report" suspect actions after the day's play, or after the match. This is a preposterous situation. As we've seen with Johan Botha a couple of seasons ago - his action was reported as suspect after his debut v Australia in Sydney. He took 2 test wickets (Hussey & Hayden) off actual no-balls which was verified by the lab. This is such a stupid predicament the ICC have got themselves into. The umpires would have normally called Botha for throwing and Hayden may have gone on to get a ton rather than be "dismissed" for 90.

Relying on a laboratory to determine a bowler's degree of flexion is ludicrous considering there is no tolerance in the Laws of the game. Plus, the laboratory would even make Molly Meldrum look straight.

[tonysoprano]

Re: Murali.

I don't accept that he cheats. Dodgey - yes, but a deliberate act to circumvent the laws of the game - no.

For me, he doesn't bowl like the throw he has in the field, or like any other fielder does. (I will accept he doesn't "bowl" like any other bowler does either!). But to me his action is more of a back hand flick - and he still does roll the shoulder, and the upper arm does rotate in an arc.

The original law (before Murali debut) was designed to stop people "pitching" like baseballers. The law was something like "if the umpire has any doubt as to the legitimacy of a bowlers action he shall call no-ball". Hair and Emerson had doubts and called no-ball. But no other umpire to that point had done so.

It emerged that Murali's arm has a congential defect and could not "straighten" to the extent that most arms can. (This was confirmed by Australian Dr David Young - a world leader in orthopaeidc surgery). This lead to heavy speculation and the eventual law changes which Jimmy, and BenDoolan suggest are ridiculuous - reporting, lab testing etc. and which I completely agree.

I'm not sure about the doosra, but I have read reports from Perth, Melbourne, Hong Kong, and Singapore - that Murali flexes his arm about 10 degrees, but it was also posited that all bowlers have some flexion and it was a question of what would be an acceptable/tolerable level.

If I can locate the published research article about Murali by Dr Bruce Elliot from UWA I will post it.

[BenDoolan]

Re: Murali.

I don't accept that he cheats. Dodgey - yes, but a deliberate act to circumvent the laws of the game - no.

For me, he doesn't bowl like the throw he has in the field, or like any other fielder does. (I will accept he doesn't "bowl" like any other bowler does either!). But to me his action is more of a back hand flick - and he still does roll the shoulder, and the upper arm does rotate in an arc.

The original law (before Murali debut) was designed to stop people "pitching" like baseballers. The law was something like "if the umpire has any doubt as to the legitimacy of a bowlers action he shall call no-ball". Hair and Emerson had doubts and called no-ball. But no other umpire to that point had done so.

It emerged that Murali's arm has a congential defect and could not "straighten" to the extent that most arms can. (This was confirmed by Australian Dr David Young - a world leader in orthopaeidc surgery). This lead to heavy speculation and the eventual law changes which Jimmy, and BenDoolan suggest are ridiculuous - reporting, lab testing etc. and which I completely agree.

I'm not sure about the doosra, but I have read reports from Perth, Melbourne, Hong Kong, and Singapore - that Murali flexes his arm about 10 degrees, but it was also posited that all bowlers have some flexion and it was a question of what would be an acceptable/tolerable level.

If I can locate the published research article about Murali by Dr Bruce Elliot from UWA I will post it.

Yes, that's correct. The initial testing, I bieleve, reported a 17 degree flexion with his doosra while his normal deliveries hovered around 10. They did discover most bowlers (99% of cases) had a degree of flexion, which is against the laws of the game. The problem the law makers have is what tolerance do they set in and how do they measure it during play. There is a 15 degree (I think) flexion in which scientists believe is the limit where the human eye can detect a straightening of the arm during a delivery. Too me, that's far too much tolerance. With technology today - super slo-mo's and computerised gadgets, it wouldn't be hard for the third umpire to determine a bowlers flexion when queried by the central umpires. If it is found to be above 5, 10, 15 (whatever tolerance they decide) degrees, then the central umpire will call no-ball. Simple.

[CameronClayton]

His arm is permanently crooked, if he bowled with a straight arm than that would be a chuck. You couldn't straighten out his arm if you tied him to 2 tractors & told them to go in different directions.

He is an easy, soft target just because he has a 'gammy' arm. If he bowled all the time in long sleeves, a la Greg Matthews, no-one would ever had known that he bowled with a bend in his arm.

And getting back to our domination over the last 15 odd years, it's like the Bombers 2000 season & I reckon after the 8th or 9th premiership in a row (winning all GF's by an average of 100 points), then I would be wanting some competition also. Imagine going to the MCG on Anzac Day with only 60,000 in the crowd because the Pie supporters don't bother turning up anymore - how F****** boring would that be! You gotta gloat to someone when you win.

I'd take 8 or 9 flags in a row, but 15 in a row would decimate the competition, & it would get bloody boring, just like cricket is now.

People need to ask themselves why did the cricket ratings go through the roof when the Poms finally took it up to us in the 2005 tour in the UK. We lost, yet more people watched than ever. True sport lovers crave competition.

But again, the fact i'd also enjoy seeing more even Test series being played in Australia doesn't excuse the fact that Murali cheats. And Murali does cheat - they've changed the rules twice to accommodate his action which has meant his off-break is now legal, but his doosra is still a throw. I'll never be convinced to the contrary until they can somehow measure the angle of the bend in his arm during an actual match, rather than in a contrived setting where he can make sure his arm doesn't bend too much.

If we won 8 or 9 premierships in a row, yes, i'd probably get a bit sick of it too, but my response to this hypothetical would be along the lines of: "bloody hell, why don't the other 15 teams pull their fingers out, analyse what we're doing, and implement a plan to improve so they can become competitive with us" as opposed to your line of thought which seems to be: "let's give the other 15 teams all the draft picks and never penalise them at the tribunal so they can become competitive with Essendon".

Excusing Murali's cheating on the grounds that it makes cricket more competitive is like saying "i'm sick of seeing Federer win all the time, so to make it more interesting, i'm happy for Nadal, Djokovic, Roddick and Nalbandian to take drugs", or "i'm sick of seeing Tiger Woods win all the time, so let's give Mickelson/Singh/Scott/Els special equipment so they can hit the ball farther and straighter and compete with Woods". Just doesn't do it for me.

This is the crux of where our differences lie - I don't believe Murali is cheating whereas you do. I believe the permanent bend (let's say it's a 10o bend) in his right arm stays within the 15o maximum, allowing for a 5o flex.

And btw, Tiger Woods & Roger Federer do not win every single time (plus haven't been dominant for 15 years, maybe 5). I can remember at least 4 times this year where Federer has lost. Our cricket team have been beaten TWICE in a Test cricket series in the last 15 years (both overseas), & no-one has come close to us on home soil for yonks (Kiwis come close about 6-7 years back). Allowing for an average of 3 test series a year, that's a 43-2 win/loss ratio spead over 15 years.

Crowds are dwindling & as someone said earlier, it's not about the quality of cricket being played - we have some fantastic batsman who are great to watch, who can average 4 runs an over in Tests. But it reminds me of men playing against boys - I was majorly disappointed with the Poms last year, as I thought we where finally going to get a close home series & again we ended up with a 5-0 whitewash flogging.

So crowds are not dwindling because of the quality of the cricket being played - they are dwindling, because a lot of people are sick & tired of watching a one horse race.

[BenDoolan]

I like Ian Chappell's idea for test cricket - although I wouldn't go to that extreme just yet. Chappelli suggested that test cricket be reduced to 3 days to produce closer contests with a bit of flair. I reckon they should at least drop it down to 4 days, because we rarely ever see a test going down to the final day, the final over of the final session. Crowds are at their peak in the first three days, and you probably get 100 people turning up for the final (5th) day if it ever makes it to that.

[swoodley]

You lot sound like the AFL rules committee...."let's change the game because we haven't changed anything for awhile"

Leave the game alone....crowds have always died off in the latter days of a test and have always been small against the less traditional opponents.

If you want a rush...go and watch the 20/20 crap (cricket for people with short attention spans).

Test cricket has evolved because of the dominance of the Australian team and because we have had captains who have played and captained aggressively.

It's not up to us to slow down...it's up to the other nations to improve, just like we did to finally end the Windies dominance.

Personally, I've enjoyed watching every thrashing we've handed out because I remember how bad we were during the WSC period and the mid 80's

[Rossoneri]

You lot sound like the AFL rules committee...."let's change the game because we haven't changed anything for awhile"

Leave the game alone....crowds have always died off in the latter days of a test and have always been small against the less traditional opponents.

If you want a rush...go and watch the 20/20 crap (cricket for people with short attention spans).

Test cricket has evolved because of the dominance of the Australian team and because we have had captains who have played and captained aggressively.

It's not up to us to slow down...it's up to the other nations to improve, just like we did to finally end the Windies dominance.

Personally, I've enjoyed watching every thrashing we've handed out because I remember how bad we were during the WSC period and the mid 80's

Beautifully said.

[Essendon4eva]

For the first summer in a long time, I have no interest in watching the test matches. Other than, it's Australia, there is no reason to watch. At least when England was here, we were winning the Ashes back and getting revenge.

[bomberdonnie]

You lot sound like the AFL rules committee...."let's change the game because we haven't changed anything for awhile"

Leave the game alone....crowds have always died off in the latter days of a test and have always been small against the less traditional opponents.

If you want a rush...go and watch the 20/20 crap (cricket for people with short attention spans).

Test cricket has evolved because of the dominance of the Australian team and because we have had captains who have played and captained aggressively.

It's not up to us to slow down...it's up to the other nations to improve, just like we did to finally end the Windies dominance.

Personally, I've enjoyed watching every thrashing we've handed out because I remember how bad we were during the WSC period and the mid 80's

Beautifully said.

Indeed

[BenDoolan]

You lot sound like the AFL rules committee...."let's change the game because we haven't changed anything for awhile"

Leave the game alone....crowds have always died off in the latter days of a test and have always been small against the less traditional opponents.

If you want a rush...go and watch the 20/20 crap (cricket for people with short attention spans).

Test cricket has evolved because of the dominance of the Australian team and because we have had captains who have played and captained aggressively.

It's not up to us to slow down...it's up to the other nations to improve, just like we did to finally end the Windies dominance.

Personally, I've enjoyed watching every thrashing we've handed out because I remember how bad we were during the WSC period and the mid 80's

Come on Swoods, you can't tell me the throwing farce doesn't need proper application of the laws than the current monstrosity. It's a F****** blight on the game.

And if it wasn't for Kerry Packer and World Series Cricket, Test cricket would probably be dead by now. The game evolves because new conditions and technology is introduced. The third umpire, standardised boundaries, neutral umpires, new LBW laws for legspinners, lights being used to enhance natural light conditions, extension of play or make up of time etc, etc. If you wind the clock back 35 years you would notice test cricket was played to strict time. There was no minimum amount of overs to be bowled in a day (West Indies were notoriously slow with over rates). No time was made up for bad light or rain delays. So back then you probably needed the full 5 days of play to get a result.

[swoodley]

Sorry Ben but I think it's time that all the Murali bashers moved on. Like it or not, the governing body has ruled that his action is legal and that's the end of it.

Over rates, time restrictions etc etc etc are side issues to the idea on this thread that the game is dying.

The reason(s) that a lot of games featuring Australia are over quickly are due to the fact that we play aggresive cricket and currently are better than all other teams.

There are still a lot of drawn test matches featuring other countries because of their slow tradiotnal way of playing.

And as for Ian Chappell's idea of three day test matches....why don't we just cancel the first innings and play a single inning game...oops, that sounds a bit like one day cricket.

Test cricket did not suffer when The Windies were creaming all and sundry during their reign at the top and I don't hink it's suffering now.

As I said before...leave the game alone.

[BenDoolan]

Sorry Ben but I think it's time that all the Murali bashers moved on. Like it or not, the governing body has ruled that his action is legal and that's the end of it.

Over rates, time restrictions etc etc etc are side issues to the idea on this thread that the game is dying.

The reason(s) that a lot of games featuring Australia are over quickly are due to the fact that we play aggresive cricket and currently are better than all other teams.

There are still a lot of drawn test matches featuring other countries because of their slow tradiotnal way of playing.

And as for Ian Chappell's idea of three day test matches....why don't we just cancel the first innings and play a single inning game...oops, that sounds a bit like one day cricket.

Test cricket did not suffer when The Windies were creaming all and sundry during their reign at the top and I don't hink it's suffering now.

As I said before...leave the game alone.

Your missing the point entirely on all counts. The throwing issue isn't just about Murali, it's about a truck load of offenders who are putting a blight on the game, and the application of the laws is beyond ridiculous. Like it or not, chuckers are allowed to bowl throughout a test match without being no-balled until they are tested out of the match itself. This is purely ludicrous. A batsman can feel rightly cheated if the bowler is found to be illegal after the match has concluded and the results of throwing are positive. Under the old application, the umpire would call no-ball and the batsman couldn't be dismissed. Look beyond the Murali factor. Jermaine Lawson illegally took 7-78 against Australia in that world record chase in Antigua. Johan Botha is another example, and there are many more.

As for "leaving the game alone", my point was showing that it HAS changed since WSC days - and for the better. New laws, new technology has enhanced the standard of the game and will continue to do so. The game will continue to evolve and laws will continue to change with it. And generally, the administrators get it right.

Crowd numbers for test cricket is dropping around the globe. So while the game itself is of a better standard and improving, the people aren't turning up. So in that respect, test cricket is struggling.