Bombertalk

Reckon St. kilda or Carlton may trade one of their picks or midfielders for him?

I dont want to put all the emphasis on Laycock, but hille has a pea for a heart. Maybe its his half arsed performances that puts him on the bench? Richmond had polak for a ruckman for f*** sake and Hille still couldnt beat him.

He's had a shocker of a year but we must keep him.

Rossoneri wrote:Reckon St. kilda or Carlton may trade one of their picks or midfielders for him?

I dont want to put all the emphasis on Laycock, but hille has a pea for a heart. Maybe its his half arsed performances that puts him on the bench? Richmond had polak for a ruckman for f*** sake and Hille still couldnt beat him.

Or what about when Shane Tuck went up against him and just grabbed it and kicked a goal.

The main problem is we don't have anyone else after Laycock, especially if Ryder is going to play in defence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should have kept Cartledge.

j-mac wrote:

Rossoneri wrote:Reckon St. kilda or Carlton may trade one of their picks or midfielders for him?

I dont want to put all the emphasis on Laycock, but hille has a pea for a heart. Maybe its his half arsed performances that puts him on the bench? Richmond had polak for a ruckman for f*** sake and Hille still couldnt beat him.

Or what about when Shane Tuck went up against him and just grabbed it and kicked a goal.

The main problem is we don't have anyone else after Laycock, especially if Ryder is going to play in defence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should have kept Cartledge.

Did you ever see him play 2's? Hopeless, utterly hopeless. McKinnon is alright though.

j-mac wrote:

Rossoneri wrote:Reckon St. kilda or Carlton may trade one of their picks or midfielders for him?

I dont want to put all the emphasis on Laycock, but hille has a pea for a heart. Maybe its his half arsed performances that puts him on the bench? Richmond had polak for a ruckman for f*** sake and Hille still couldnt beat him.

Or what about when Shane Tuck went up against him and just grabbed it and kicked a goal.

The main problem is we don't have anyone else after Laycock, especially if Ryder is going to play in defence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should have kept Cartledge.

You're kidding? He is another with a pea-sized heart. Being a ruckman isnt just winning a hit out, its about how you run around the ground and your presence on the field. Often, you are the biggest player on the field and you have to show your dominance or at least an intent to dominate.

Rossoneri wrote:

j-mac wrote:

Rossoneri wrote:Reckon St. kilda or Carlton may trade one of their picks or midfielders for him?

I dont want to put all the emphasis on Laycock, but hille has a pea for a heart. Maybe its his half arsed performances that puts him on the bench? Richmond had polak for a ruckman for f*** sake and Hille still couldnt beat him.

Or what about when Shane Tuck went up against him and just grabbed it and kicked a goal.

The main problem is we don't have anyone else after Laycock, especially if Ryder is going to play in defence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should have kept Cartledge.

You're kidding? He is another with a pea-sized heart. Being a ruckman isnt just winning a hit out, its about how you run around the ground and your presence on the field. Often, you are the biggest player on the field and you have to show your dominance or at least an intent to dominate.

WHAT FRIKKIN CRAP.

Cast your mind back to when this club last won an AFL finals match, and tell me who won the bloody thing off his own boot.

David Hille has had an up and down season, but the man gives his all.

and FFS he took on the reins of captain in the club in the toughest season the club had faces in almost 30 years.

tom9779 wrote:

Rossoneri wrote:

j-mac wrote:

Rossoneri wrote:Reckon St. kilda or Carlton may trade one of their picks or midfielders for him?

I dont want to put all the emphasis on Laycock, but hille has a pea for a heart. Maybe its his half arsed performances that puts him on the bench? Richmond had polak for a ruckman for f*** sake and Hille still couldnt beat him.

Or what about when Shane Tuck went up against him and just grabbed it and kicked a goal.

The main problem is we don't have anyone else after Laycock, especially if Ryder is going to play in defence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should have kept Cartledge.

You're kidding? He is another with a pea-sized heart. Being a ruckman isnt just winning a hit out, its about how you run around the ground and your presence on the field. Often, you are the biggest player on the field and you have to show your dominance or at least an intent to dominate.

WHAT FRIKKIN CRAP.

Cast your mind back to when this club last won an AFL finals match, and tell me who won the bloody thing off his own boot.

David Hille has had an up and down season, but the man gives his all.

and FFS he took on the reins of captain in the club in the toughest season the club had faces in almost 30 years.

Since you have a great memory, what did he do for the first three quarters of that match? Yes he did kick three goals in the last. Do you wish to recall how he went the following week against Geelong?

And for the record numb-nuts, I was referring to Cartledge in the post you quoted.

j-mac wrote:
Or what about when Shane Tuck went up against him and just grabbed it and kicked a goal.

The main problem is we don't have anyone else after Laycock, especially if Ryder is going to play in defence.

That was a disgrace. Tuck took it from out of the ruck. Stood there for an eternity. Everyone just stood around and watched while he realised noone was going to bother getting near him, turned around and calmly slotted the easiest of goals. Utter disgrace.

Interesting how we all consider (after the season we've had) Ryder to be groomed as a permanent backman, however, last night he was parked permanently on the half forward line, doing the rucking duties every now and then up forward. Meanwhile, Lucas was getting pasted in defence.

Is Hille injured? He could barely move yesterday. Barely got up to a walk moving across the field while midfielders coasted past him without any pressure. If he was injured, why would he be in to replace Fletcher who was also injured? If he wasn't injured, that is one of the most disgraceful performances I've witnessed from a senior player, and "former captain" of the club, even if he was just a "Stand-in" captain.

For the record, i'm in favour of keeping Hille. A few reasons why:
1) Apparently known fact (based on what i've heard) that he and Sheeds don't get along swimmingly. I've been told this by a few people. I'm not sure if it's entirely true in light of Hille getting the stand-in captaincy role last year (which would seem to imply that Sheeds has respect for him), but anyway. I think he could go better under a new coach;
2) Laycock's fragile, Ryder's still young.

We need to keep Hille but he has alot to improve on. He seemed to be watching his opponent more than the ball during marking contests.

Ryder looked good up forward, he took some good marks but is still more suited to down back where he can follow an opponent to the ball.

Trade Courtney Johns to Bulldogs for Peter Street.

They need a forward we need a good tap ruckman.

boncer34 wrote:

j-mac wrote:

Rossoneri wrote:Reckon St. kilda or Carlton may trade one of their picks or midfielders for him?

I dont want to put all the emphasis on Laycock, but hille has a pea for a heart. Maybe its his half arsed performances that puts him on the bench? Richmond had polak for a ruckman for f*** sake and Hille still couldnt beat him.

Or what about when Shane Tuck went up against him and just grabbed it and kicked a goal.

The main problem is we don't have anyone else after Laycock, especially if Ryder is going to play in defence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should have kept Cartledge.

Did you ever see him play 2's? Hopeless, utterly hopeless. McKinnon is alright though.

Sorry, haven't you been a regular stand upperer for Bradley and Henneman?

But seriously, here are several reasons why we should have kept him:

He is young. Still. Cartledge is only 5 months older than Bradley, yet how often do people say we need to give Bradley and Johns time? It seems to be a "fact" that tall players take longer to develop and probably ruckman more than any. Still only 22. Why shouldn't he be allowed the same time? Especially after Henneman and Bolton were given far too long.
And Boncer you said he was shit in the 2s. Well I disagree, but also, before he got injured this year, he was dominating and played for the VFL side against the WAFL. He improved.

Hille is a dud.

Laycock seems to get injured a lot. Luckily he's had a great run this year.

Ryder now plays in defence.

Cartledge could move well and pretty quickly for a big bloke. Hille can barely get himself around the ground. And he was really good at taking a grab in the middle of the ground and giving it off to the midfielders running past. Oh I see, with our midfield that wouldn't happen.

Yes, he had some timing issues with his ruckwork. But when he jumped at the right time, he tapped it (and still does) to teammates. Again, practice and over time, he could have been very good.

Also, anyone see the last two games of last year. We played the Bulldogs after Richmond. Cartledge showed more potential in his tap work, his movement around the ground and his willingness to throw himself on the ground to win the footy than Hille ever has.

j-mac wrote:

boncer34 wrote:

j-mac wrote:

Rossoneri wrote:Reckon St. kilda or Carlton may trade one of their picks or midfielders for him?

I dont want to put all the emphasis on Laycock, but hille has a pea for a heart. Maybe its his half arsed performances that puts him on the bench? Richmond had polak for a ruckman for f*** sake and Hille still couldnt beat him.

Or what about when Shane Tuck went up against him and just grabbed it and kicked a goal.

The main problem is we don't have anyone else after Laycock, especially if Ryder is going to play in defence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we should have kept Cartledge.

Did you ever see him play 2's? Hopeless, utterly hopeless. McKinnon is alright though.

Sorry, haven't you been a regular stand upperer for Bradley and Henneman?

But seriously, here are several reasons why we should have kept him:

He is young. Still. Cartledge is only 5 months older than Bradley, yet how often do people say we need to give Bradley and Johns time? It seems to be a "fact" that tall players take longer to develop and probably ruckman more than any. Still only 22. Why shouldn't he be allowed the same time? Especially after Henneman and Bolton were given far too long.
And Boncer you said he was shit in the 2s. Well I disagree, but also, before he got injured this year, he was dominating and played for the VFL side against the WAFL. He improved.

Hille is a dud.

Laycock seems to get injured a lot. Luckily he's had a great run this year.

Ryder now plays in defence.

Cartledge could move well and pretty quickly for a big bloke. Hille can barely get himself around the ground. And he was really good at taking a grab in the middle of the ground and giving it off to the midfielders running past. Oh I see, with our midfield that wouldn't happen.

Yes, he had some timing issues with his ruckwork. But when he jumped at the right time, he tapped it (and still does) to teammates. Again, practice and over time, he could have been very good.

Also, anyone see the last two games of last year. We played the Bulldogs after Richmond. Cartledge showed more potential in his tap work, his movement around the ground and his willingness to throw himself on the ground to win the footy than Hille ever has.

Not sure what my defence of Henneman and Bradley has to do with anything but if you'd payed attention my defence of Henno had nothing to do with his abilities as a player and as for Bradley it seems a lot of people now believe he should be given another year.

First off Cartledge move well and quickly? Sure if your comparing him to the Titanic. I saw the last 2 games and it simply confirmed my thoughts that he was an out and out dud.

Comparing Cartledge to Hille is totally ludicrous. Yes I'm furious with the big bloke after Sundays disaster but jeez Hille vs. Cartledge? Take Hille any day of the week and twice on sundays. Hille has been ordinary this year and terrible on sunday but shit he is still one of the best ruckman when he's on his game.

Laycock could quite simply be developing a better body and is now over his run of injuries. May have nothing to do with luck.

As for Paddy he is playing down back atm but who knows what the plans of the new coach is? He was drafted as a ruckman, I'd be suprised to see him never play that position.

bombercol wrote:Trade Courtney Johns to Bulldogs for Peter Street.

They need a forward we need a good tap ruckman.

Hmmm that could work, but i would rather trade for pace. Johns for McMahon would be better suited to the club

As for Hille, he has had a disappointing year but we need to keep him. Laycock and Hille are our only ruck options if Ryder turns into a KPP. Maybe we should draft a young ruckman and keep Hille just until he develops.

boncer34 wrote:as for Bradley it seems a lot of people now believe he should be given another year.

Normally I respect your views Boncer, but putting aside what we think of each player and I'm not really having a go at you, this goes for everyone - why does Bradley, who has played almost 50 games deserve at least another year, whereas Cartledge, who played less than 10 deserved the arse last year?

Contradiction anyone?

The difference being is that Sheedy f***** Bradley up. Bradley was a wingman in WAFL but sheeds thought that because he is tall and lanky, he must be a clone of Dustin Fletcher so he tried to turn him into a defender.

Under a new coach, if Bradley is played up forward, he may double the amount of good games he has played to two.

Cartledge is only a ruckman, was played there (very limited time I must say) and failed. The difference is that under a new coach, Cartledge may have been ok, but he got delisted last year.

If he was on the list right now, I would give him one more year, under a new coach.

Cartledge failed? How many games did he play more than 10 minutes? Probably only the last too.

I would argue that Sheedy f***** both up.

And Bradley has been f***** up, but at least he isn't playing on the wing. The midfield is slow enough as it is.

Look, the main point I'm trying to get across here is that if Bradley deserves more time, surely Cartledge did but there's no point arguing anymore, he's gone.

Although how long did Reynolds, Henneman and Bolton get to prove they were duds.

j-mac wrote:Cartledge failed? How many games did he play more than 10 minutes? Probably only the last too.

I would argue that Sheedy f***** both up.

And Bradley has been f***** up, but at least he isn't playing on the wing. The midfield is slow enough as it is.

Look, the main point I'm trying to get across here is that if Bradley deserves more time, surely Cartledge did but there's no point arguing anymore, he's gone.

Although how long did Reynolds, Henneman and Bolton get to prove they were duds.

100% correct. I was eluding to Shedy f****** Cartledge up as well by giving him limited game time.
As for keeping duds and delisting untried players, well thats been happening for ages with Sheeds. Henneman played teh worst 60 games in the history of football, Sam hunt played 4 games and played well in 2 of them.

Just one example.

Don't get me started on Hunt. Where's Bargey when you need him?

I know a lot of people here thought Alvey was a dud, but I put him in the same bracket. Got a few more games than the others, but rarely left the bench, despite getting a fair bit of the ball when he was on.

Austin Lucy last year was the same. He didn't get any games!

I read in the paper today that Darren Jolly is apparently wanting to come back to Melbourne... if people are so against Hille maybe we should trade him off and get Jolly.

a ruck combination of Jolly and Laycock sounds nice. Adelaides John Meeson is almost certain to end up at Carlton so what team would Hille suit??