Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post Reply
User avatar
Windy_Hill
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 12240
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:23 pm

Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by Windy_Hill » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:05 pm

the following trades ...explain why or why not

Fantasia...Adelaide....1st and 3rd Rounder or;
Fantasia....Port...Ollie Wines

Daniher....Sydney...2 First Rounders

Picks 29 & 31 for late First Rounder

Laverde and our Third Round pick for a Second Round pick

Hurley and Second Round Pick....Gold Coast for First Round Pick
Last edited by Windy_Hill on Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

nudder12
Regular Senior Player
Posts: 2091
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:47 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by nudder12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:07 am

Windy_Hill wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:05 pm
the following trades ...explain why or why not

Fantasia...Adelaide....1st and 3rd Rounder or;
Fantasia....Port...Ollie Wines
Fantasia for draft picks - No. Where our list is at, Fantasia offers more immediate upside than draft picks.
Fantasia for Wines - Perhaps. We wouldn't be losing anything in that trade. Wines could play forward, and is a better midfielder.


Daniher....Sydney...2 First Rounders
No. Again, based on where our list is at. We'd have no serious forward target, and years before a draft pick developed into one.

Picks 29 & 31 for late First Rounder
Sure. More upside in a first rounder than 29 & 31.

Laverde and our Third Round pick for a Second Round pick
No. Happy to give him one more season. I think his upside is more than a 2nd rounder in the immediate future.

Hurley and Second Round Pick....Gold Coast for First Round Pick
Would rather keep Hurley and 2nd rounder, but I could live with it because I think we've got enough depth to cover him.

User avatar
s'dreams
Club Captain
Posts: 4280
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:48 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by s'dreams » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:19 am

Daniher won't get 2 first rounds.
Hurley worth more than 1 first round in his own right
Laverde worth a late second in his own right
Port won't part with their Captain for a player who hasn't made it onto the ground for a whole season nor fully fit in 3 years.

A rumor doing the rounds is that GWS may be interested in trading back a 1st round pick for our two second round picks for academy picks/points or something (that crap does my head in).

I actually don't think we will be big players during trade period given the (a) limited availability of rucks and BBMs (b) the empty cookie jar of picks for trading and disgruntled players (Laverde and maybe Francis excepted) and (c) Woosha focusing on 2020 not 2-4 years time which is where a 1st round pick comes in.

Only Sier seems to be rumored to be interested in coming our way and that shouldn't require a 1st rounder to get done, especially as they will be under cap pressure with Grundy asking for a lot.
dices ad adepto futui (tell them to f*** off)

User avatar
Windy_Hill
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 12240
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:23 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by Windy_Hill » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:33 am

i guess the key issue with Fantasia is his desire to head home at some point. For us, it is when can we extract maximum leverage in a trade and that is not usually when the player is uncontracted.

User avatar
s'dreams
Club Captain
Posts: 4280
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:48 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by s'dreams » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:17 am

Windy_Hill wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:33 am
i guess the key issue with Fantasia is his desire to head home at some point. For us, it is when can we extract maximum leverage in a trade and that is not usually when the player is uncontracted.
Yeah well McPhee desperately wanted to return home for good ... 3 years after screwing us over he was back here and stayed.

Look after Razz's G/F and things could be less stressful. And it wouldn't be the first time that this sort of thing has happened.
dices ad adepto futui (tell them to f*** off)

User avatar
Windy_Hill
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 12240
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:23 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by Windy_Hill » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:12 pm

More Daniher speculation in the media today. Wonder why it wont go away


As for him not being worth 2 draft picks...pffft.

If Shiel can get 2 then Daniher is a shoe in for the same. A marquee kpp forward who is capable of kicking 60+ goals...they dont grow on trees. Ok , this assumes he is injury free but if he is and he does want to leave then you can bet your bottom dollar he wont go for less than 2 first rounders

User avatar
MH_Bomber
Club Captain
Posts: 3418
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:16 pm
Location: Hughesdale

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by MH_Bomber » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:15 am

I think we should be reluctant to trade Daniher because we've invested a lot in his development and have nought to show for it. Big forwards like him dont grow on trees.

Nothing less that 2 first round picks and a ready to go player who is quality will suffice. Alternatively we should demand Papley and Heeney for a straight swap. It's time to play extreme hard ball on this if he wants to leave.

As for Fantasia, hard to judge him at the moment because his injuries have basically stopped him being dynamic self. I loved his year in 2016.

Hurley? Hmmm. Would hate to see him leave.

Can we just get him right in term of his shoulders and thumbs. That comment goes for all these guys we are speculating about.
Regards

MH_Bomber

User avatar
Windy_Hill
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 12240
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:23 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by Windy_Hill » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:48 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:15 am
I think we should be reluctant to trade Daniher because we've invested a lot in his development and have nought to show for it. Big forwards like him dont grow on trees.

Nothing less that 2 first round picks and a ready to go player who is quality will suffice. Alternatively we should demand Papley and Heeney for a straight swap. It's time to play extreme hard ball on this if he wants to leave.

As for Fantasia, hard to judge him at the moment because his injuries have basically stopped him being dynamic self. I loved his year in 2016.

Hurley? Hmmm. Would hate to see him leave.

Can we just get him right in term of his shoulders and thumbs. That comment goes for all these guys we are speculating about.
Problem is Daniher will become a restricted free agent next year I believe. In which case Sydney can throw the kitchen sink at him without having to give up any picks or players. We would receive a single compensatory pick, likely a first round selection. That would be a devastating blow for Essendon

User avatar
Windy_Hill
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 12240
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:23 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by Windy_Hill » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:17 pm

Imagine if we had the following draft picks for this year's National Draft

4, 8, 9 and 11

We could potentially build a team with genuine long term talent. Let's be honest, we simply do not have the cattle to be a top 4 threat in the immediate short term.

My point with this post is we need to be aggressive to build a premiership team within the next 3 to 5 years.


We can get these picks by giving up two very good players but players without whom for most of the last 2 years we have managed to be pretty competitive. Will their return to fitness and form propel us to premiership contention. I don't think so. Even with Daniher and Fantasia back in the team injury free, we are at best a 5 to 8 team. Even with these 2 we still lack strength in the midfield. Without an elite midfield, we will forever be the team that plays the kamikaze slingshot game plan out of defence as this is the only area of the field that we are able to dominate....sometimes.


So as mentioned in the OP, we can trade players who offer some potential for a raft of genuine midfield guns and/ or an elite, reliab.e KPP Forward a la J Cameron

Daniher can attract 2 First Round picks, 4 and 8 from Sydney. This assumes Sydney receive pick 8 from Carlton for a mooted trade for Papley.

Fantasia can attract 1 First Round pick, 9 from Port...I would think we may have to throw in a Laverde or a third rounder to sweeten the pot.

We trade our current two Second Round picks to GWS and get back from em Pick 11 which of course is the First Round selection we included in the Shiel deal last year.


So we go into this years draft with 4 selections inside the Top 11. And we don't really lose any of he competitiveness from this years best 22 given the players being traded. As such we wouldn't have to bottom out simply in an effort to rebuild with high draft picks which is normally the case for other clubs.


A future 22 could look like this

FB. Ambrose. Zerk-Thatcher. Gleeson
HB. McKenna. Francis. Saad
C. Heppell. Merrett. McGrath
HF. Smith D. Cameron J - Picks 4 & 8. Parish
FF. Mosquito. Stringer. Walla.

Ruck. Draper, Shiel, Pick 9 (Inside Mid)

I/C. Pick 11 (Outside Mid), Redman, Clarke D, Guelfi

nudder12
Regular Senior Player
Posts: 2091
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:47 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by nudder12 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:22 pm

Windy_Hill wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:17 pm
Imagine if we had the following draft picks for this year's National Draft

4, 8, 9 and 11

We could potentially build a team with genuine long term talent. Let's be honest, we simply do not have the cattle to be a top 4 threat in the immediate short term.

My point with this post is we need to be aggressive to build a premiership team within the next 3 to 5 years.


We can get these picks by giving up two very good players but players without whom for most of the last 2 years we have managed to be pretty competitive. Will their return to fitness and form propel us to premiership contention. I don't think so. Even with Daniher and Fantasia back in the team injury free, we are at best a 5 to 8 team. Even with these 2 we still lack strength in the midfield. Without an elite midfield, we will forever be the team that plays the kamikaze slingshot game plan out of defence as this is the only area of the field that we are able to dominate....sometimes.


So as mentioned in the OP, we can trade players who offer some potential for a raft of genuine midfield guns and/ or an elite, reliab.e KPP Forward a la J Cameron

Daniher can attract 2 First Round picks, 4 and 8 from Sydney. This assumes Sydney receive pick 8 from Carlton for a mooted trade for Papley.

Fantasia can attract 1 First Round pick, 9 from Port...I would think we may have to throw in a Laverde or a third rounder to sweeten the pot.

We trade our current two Second Round picks to GWS and get back from em Pick 11 which of course is the First Round selection we included in the Shiel deal last year.


So we go into this years draft with 4 selections inside the Top 11. And we don't really lose any of he competitiveness from this years best 22 given the players being traded. As such we wouldn't have to bottom out simply in an effort to rebuild with high draft picks which is normally the case for other clubs.


A future 22 could look like this

FB. Ambrose. Zerk-Thatcher. Gleeson
HB. McKenna. Francis. Saad
C. Heppell. Merrett. McGrath
HF. Smith D. Cameron J - Picks 4 & 8. Parish
FF. Mosquito. Stringer. Walla.

Ruck. Draper, Shiel, Pick 9 (Inside Mid)

I/C. Pick 11 (Outside Mid), Redman, Clarke D, Guelfi
All good in theory.
But if we don't get the picks/trades you mention we can be left in limbo.
And if the draft picks turn out not to be midfield guns, we're in limbo.
And it's a lot to expect that all 4 of the draft picks you wish for will make it into our best 22 in their first season.
Even if it goes as planned, I don't know that we have a key position back to mix it with the power forwards out there.
There's no guarantees that Mosquito or Draper will ever make it.
I'm not totally against what you're suggesting, but frankly, I think we have more upside hoping/believing Daniher & Fantasia can reproduce a lot of their best form next year.

User avatar
Windy_Hill
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 12240
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:23 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you be happy with...

Post by Windy_Hill » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:05 pm

There is risk whichever way we go but do remember, when Joe and Raz had their fantastic years in 2017, we finished 8th! Sure we have bolstered the mid field since with Shiel, Smith and up forward with Stringer so perhaps a full season with all of them playing fit may be the difference. But what if it doesn't make the difference?

Post Reply