The root of our problems : Center Half Forward

[hillchaser]

From the games that I have watched recently our biggest problem seems to be that we are breaking down across CHF. I agree that the midfield has been beaten but to me the real problem is CHF. We literally break down there 80% of the time and it then often leads to strong counter attack.

I've been trying to analyse the reasons for this and have come up with the following. I'm not sure if it is a combination of these or if there is one in particular.

1. Our big men are just being beaten. They are too slow, out of form and we are just not able to take a mark or bring the ball to ground.

2. Our delivery/skills are the problem.

3. The structure is wrong. Given that teams are zoning back.. Is the problem that we are just not handling the zone ? For example other teams seem to be able to clear out more space in the forward 50 at times but often it is very crowded for us. Especially when we played Collingwood. Our forward 50 was so crowded and our forwards hardly had a chance to move.. The midfielders couldn't spot a target because all the space was filled. While on the other hand Collingwood were able to clear out much more space.

Answer : If this is the problem then we need to have more long running goals from midfielders in order to make the defence honest. This has been a real deficiency since we lost Bewick, Mercs , Moorcroft, Blumfield, Hird, Caracella and a healthy Rama. These guys would literally combine for 10 goals and game and of course that allowed Lloyd much more room as the defenders couldn't all zone off on the full forward.

Since these guys we've rarely had any long kicking midlfielders that are able to finish. - to me this is where the real problem is.


Your thoughts ?

[andrewb]

Good post.

For me, it's a selection issue. Since we've had Mcphee playing forward we've had 3 or 4 talls in the forward line every week plus, often, a resting ruckman. We're also playing Monfries but playing him as a spot up target rather than a rover. What does that mean?

1. When our big men don't mark the ball we rarely crumb and nearly always rebound out.
2. The forward line always looks more crowded because it's more stagnant.
3. We put hardly any pressure on opponents running out of half back because we can't keep up

Net result is that there is additional pressure on our midfield to deliver the ball accurately going in, and additional pressure on our midfield to pick up the slack for our forwards when the ball comes out.

We should try a few games with a more traditional line-up like:

Davey Neagle Jetta
Winderlich Lloyd McPhee/Monfries

and see what happens. I dare say that we'd suddenly be loads more potent.

The only time you want to go as tall as we did on the weekend is if the other team lacks tall backmen. Port have Chaplin, Pettigrew and Carlisle... They are not that team.

[tom9779]

I agree with what Andrew is saying, just a quick question on perception.

If we had say big jonno Brown at Centre Half Forward, would our team be completely different?

Would say Licha/Watson/Stants all of a sudden start being hailed as the next Black/Power/Voss etc
Or would Browny be wasted in our team with balls being sent over his head and at his ankles all day?

[swoodley]

It's bloody hard for tall forwards to mark the ball when they have 2-3 backmen crawling all over them. The midfield constantly over possesses the ball and so the forwards rarely get one out opportunities (and when they do, the delivery is often poor)

The root of our problems is our bloody poor (sometimes abysmal) skills level and tendency to overlook the first option.

We need better skills and decision making and then we will be a better team.

[Doctor Fish]

It's bloody hard for tall forwards to mark the ball when they have 2-3 backmen crawling all over them. The midfield constantly over possesses the ball and so the forwards rarely get one out opportunities (and when they do, the delivery is often poor)

The root of our problems is our bloody poor (sometimes abysmal) skills level and tendency to overlook the first option.

We need better skills and decision making and then we will be a better team.

Agree totally... Also our small forwards in Gus and Leroy need to pull their respective digits out and become dangerous in front of goal...

[BenDoolan]

It's bloody hard for tall forwards to mark the ball when they have 2-3 backmen crawling all over them. The midfield constantly over possesses the ball and so the forwards rarely get one out opportunities (and when they do, the delivery is often poor)

The root of our problems is our bloody poor (sometimes abysmal) skills level and tendency to overlook the first option.

We need better skills and decision making and then we will be a better team.

While this is part of the problem, and is quite true, it is also the fact that the ball is cleared by the opposition defence far too easily once the ball hits the ground. Now that Davey is back, I expect that to change somewhat. BUT, we need these crumbing opportunistic goal scorers. Where are they? Where's our Medhurst, Davis, Didak, Milne, N. Brown, Motlop, Rioli, Betts, etc?

[azza78]

I did notice against Port that we really struggled to create space, and this was compounded by guys giving half-hearted leads and then stopping in the space instead of clearing out. Neagle was good for this, but so were the old hands Lloyd and Lucas on occassion.

[Mrs Mercuri]

When our talls did create space they dropped easy marks as well. Neagle and Lucas did it a lot on Sunday.

I read on the EFC website that Paddy Ryder will play further up the ground this week and even go forward... does that mean that Neagle will be dropped or that big TB wont play?

[Sartorius]

Some very good points raised above.

Honestly, I think we need to clear out our 50 a lot. So often you see Hawthorn go long to a one on one with Buddy or Roughhead. However we seem to always end up kicking it to a pack where is is ultimately rebounded. Maybe we are playing too many talls (especially with the main 3, plus Mcphee), but also there are often a lot of smalls hanging around too.

If we played the flakers up around the wings, in more of a hawthorn type zone, with the CHF roaming up around the square, we might be able to have two of the talls inside the 50m, with alwyn, Monfires or Jetta at their feet.

Another thing we need to avoid is the entire midfield rushing forward, as there was countless times where Port rebounded effortlessly to the other end. Hence if most of the mids and flankers stay back around the middle, we won't be as crowded or as vulnerable to the counter. If the opposition insist on dropping someone back, we have an extra man in the middle, and this is where we would need to rely more on Lovett, Stanton, Winderlich, Mcveigh etc to kick goals.

Don't know how well I've tried to explain that. Sounds a lot easier than it would be to implement. Still we need to try something to fix up what we thought would be a strength but turned out to be our weakest point on the weekend.

[billyduckworth]

1. Our big men are just being beaten. They are too slow, out of form and we are just not able to take a mark or bring the ball to ground.

2. Our delivery/skills are the problem.

3. The structure is wrong.
Your thoughts ?

Good post, hllchaser.

I think it is a bit of all three of your reasons:

1. Our talls look very flat footed at the moment.

2. Our disposal coming out of the backline is okay (mostly!) but delivery into the forward line is awful. No idea why.

3. The "tall timber" forward line isn't working. Maybe we should try something like "Pagan's paddock" - clear space for ONE tall (Lloyd?) and have one or two crummers at his feet (Davey/Jetta?)

Whatever the problem is, it needs to be fixed or we are going to have a very loooong season.