Senior Players

[bomberflyer]

I watched a replay of the Bulldogs game - and have no doubt we will be a better team when we pension off Lloyd and Lucas.

I think with Hille coming back next year there is a real possibility to send Hille to the goal square. Like a Salmon or like other Clubs are doing or considering doing. Players who spring to mind who have provided a strong case for this include: Tippet, Kreuzer (was sent forward last week), Jesse White (last week) and Ottens if he returns.

Based on how well Ryder has gone this year - we can either play the two in the ruck and rotate up forward (or play a Laycock or Bellchambers as well). Ideally, we want Ryder playing in a following position of some nature based on his dual aerial and ground work.

Also, I am a little concerned about McVeigh and McPhee. I think they are struggling and either need a rest or just time (but we don't have much of that).

How good is Hurley going to be. Without being byassed he is the best first year player I've seen this year based on the positions he is playing.

[bomberdonnie]

So you are willing to write off two club champions and McVeigh on the basis of one game yet consider Jesse White as the answer after one OK game.

Paul Salmon was about the last ruckman to have any ongoing success at FF so not sure why you think that Hille would be the answer. He is a pinch hitting forward at best. When Hille is fit Laycock will barely get a game at Bendigo let alone used as a rotating ruckman come forward!

Not a huge call On Hurley as he is the only key backman from last years draft that I have seen running around. IMO Rich will be the deserved Rising Star winner this year no matter what happens from here but I expect Hurley will be in the top 5 and if he had not have been injured would be a clear second.

[rockhole]

Here we go again!!.

Just put to one side we have a very young inexperienced group of players, and let's pension off a 268 game/926 goal champion who also happens to be the Essendon captain as he is not snaring 5-6 goals as in previous seasons.

Seems to me that some bloke called Franklin was struggling a bit during the season to get amongst the goals and I do not recall any push to get rid of him.

We need the balance of vets and youth to take us forward.

And patience.

[bomberflyer]

You are living in the past and obviously speaking from the heart when suggesting we shouldn't be looking to retire Lloyd and Lucas. Their best days are done - and think for the betterment of the footy club and team that they move aside and let the team develop without them (whether this year or next year it is only time). They are not going to be a part of any team success with this group as they still developing their core.

They have certainly been greats, but every footballer has a used by date. The problem for Essendon and the luck on their side is that we're having problems getting the right players on the paddock to push for their position into the future - eg. Gumbleton.

And, I'm not penning McVeigh and McPhee, but just floating the case that the younger guys are pushing ahead of them, hence their need to lift. Otherwise, they become less important to the team.

The reason I said Hille is that he is coming back from a reco and it could be a good time to sit him up forward whilst he is developing match fitness and see what he can offer. Again, it is silly to think he has been given much opportunity up forward other than resting for a couple of minutes in a match. He has had to carry the Club in the ruck the last 5 years with our lack of ruckmen, so, it also a way of extending his career.

[swoodley]

Lloyd is currently 14th or 15th on the goal kicking list...it seems to me like he is doing a good job. His problem is that he set the bar so high in his early years that our expectations of him are not commensurate with where he's at now.

[Crazyman]

I won't say it is a stupid post because some of your points do have some merit. That said, I don't think you are looking at the bigger picture (particularly relating to Lloyd).

His role is no longer the stay at home FF. Because of the nature of the side being so young, and the need to develop other forward options as he gets older, he has played a fair bit further up ground and IMO, for the most part has done OK...to me he is still a gun FF and I would prefer to see him stay there, but I understand why he isn't...

IMHO, Lucas will retire at the end of this year with Fletch at the end of next year and Lloyd either with Fletch or the following year depending on how his body holds up...

This will give some of our younger players the time to further develop and get another pre-season or two into them and allow the older guys to continue to play mentor...

Regards to McVeigh, he had an interupted pre-season with further interuptions during the season. For mine, he just looks like he needs a few weeks to get a bit of match fitness back. He will be fine don't worry about that...McPhee has been pretty good. He has always had brain explosions when he has time to assess options but that is part of the package that is McPhee...Also, McPhee is best when he plays as our rebounding defender on the opposions third best tall or when he is our third tall forward option behind Lucas/Lloyd...he just has to stop thinking when the ball is in hand and do whatever comes to his mind first...lol

[bomberflyer]

Thanks Crazyman for not blowing up like others. I think the point I was trying to make was we need them now because we are developing and there are no obvious replacements, but they won't take us to our next Premiership.

Also, the experience issue to me is overrated these days. Most clubs have a higher percentage of 18-25 year olds than 30-35 year olds which Lloyd and Lucas fit into - so, I'm not sure you need those older guys or the power forward factor to win a premiership. Our strength is to peel off and make space - which, more often than not results in goals from play-on situations rather than contested or leading marks and set shots.

Again, with McVeigh I know he hasn't had a great year, I guess I'm disappointed he and a couple of others who've had injuries haven't been able to effectively complement the youngers guys who from IMO have exceeded the expectations I set for them at the start of the season (ie. Winders, Hocking, Pears, etc).

Again, despite what happens at the end of this year if we can get another preseason under our belts and get Hille and hopefully Gumbleton up and running next year (not sure about Neagle - it seems more attitudal if he isn't fit enough - and we have kept those guys on our list for too long) and a fit McVeigh then we should be a certain top 8 team.

[BenDoolan]

While both have struggled in several games this year, Lloyd & Lucas are #1 and #2 on our goal kicking list for the season.

How's Neagle going? Where's Daniher? Hi Gumby!

[swoodley]

Thanks Crazyman for not blowing up like others. I think the point I was trying to make was we need them now because we are developing and there are no obvious replacements, but they won't take us to our next Premiership.

Also, the experience issue to me is overrated these days. Most clubs have a higher percentage of 18-25 year olds than 30-35 year olds which Lloyd and Lucas fit into - so, I'm not sure you need those older guys or the power forward factor to win a premiership. Our strength is to peel off and make space - which, more often than not results in goals from play-on situations rather than contested or leading marks and set shots.

Most clubs include us...we have three players (all absolute legends of the club) in the 30-35 bracket. They'll all be gone soon enough so if I was you, I would sit back and enjoy it because once they're gone, you won't be seeing them again.

[rockhole]

Thanks Crazyman for not blowing up like others. I think the point I was trying to make was we need them now because we are developing and there are no obvious replacements, but they won't take us to our next Premiership.

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Where did you say this in your initial post. i would have agreed with you that they will not take us to the next flag but we need them now in a developing side.