Gotta beef up.

[hillchaser]

Don't get side tracked about arms, legs,lats and core strenght... Filthy's point is a good one.

I've been on about this for a few years. I was actually going to post something similar.

We cannot win a premiership with the likes of Dyson, Stanton, Winderlich, Davey, Lonergan in our midfield... While all of these guys have their strengths... all the really good teams only have one or two of these lightly built players....at the most ! Winderlich is a champion but he is too lightly built for AFL and will keep getting injured.

My concern with Filthy's assumption is that these guys can bulk up... but not all players have the frame to bulk up ... either they spend years in the gym with little change .. or they bulk up too much for their frame and loose their speed. My point is that teams like Adelaide, Brisbane and Hawthorn, Geelong don't even draft players like this. They draft players that have the right body type...

I'm not singling out any player in particular but just predicting that we won't make top 4 with too may lightly built players. I'll take that a step further and say that this also very much affects our game plan... we don't have a plan B because we can't play a plan B.

[robrulz5]

You have to think of the actions of the muscles. Strong chest muscles will always help, When Jonathon Brown is wrestling with an opponent and manages to push him off he is basically doing a bench press action which is an exercise for the pectoral muscles and triceps.

Biceps, lat dorsi, etc are muscles used in a pulling action which would obviously help when tackling.

Shoulder muscles have alot to different actions but the main one in regards to footy would be raising the arms to take a mark.

When it comes to breaking tackles strong muscles in the legs/hips are very important.

A strong core is always important in anything in life, you use your core muscles in every movement you do! Footballers will obviously train to have a stronger core which will help them stay standing when tackled, when in a marking contest and various other times.

so Filthy and gringo you are both correct with some points and incorrect with others.

[Sismis]

I'm with gringo. Core strength must be the no.1 focus of any power training. For reducing injury, for acceleration, and for balance.

As for leg, arms, chests. Players should always be trying to add as much as they possibly can without effecting their speed, endurance and acceleration. This is going to mean very different things for different body shapes.

[gringo]

I'm with gringo. Core strength must be the no.1 focus of any power training. For reducing injury, for acceleration, and for balance.

As for leg, arms, chests. Players should always be trying to add as much as they possibly can without effecting their speed, endurance and acceleration. This is going to mean very different things for different body shapes.

Careful...he's got the jack.

And who knowsssssssss what else!!!!

[robrulz5]

You have to think of the actions of the muscles. Strong chest muscles will always help, When Jonathon Brown is wrestling with an opponent and manages to push him off he is basically doing a bench press action which is an exercise for the pectoral muscles and triceps.

Biceps, lat dorsi, etc are muscles used in a pulling action which would obviously help when tackling.

Shoulder muscles have alot to different actions but the main one in regards to footy would be raising the arms to take a mark.

When it comes to breaking tackles strong muscles in the legs/hips are very important.

A strong core is always important in anything in life, you use your core muscles in every movement you do! Footballers will obviously train to have a stronger core which will help them stay standing when tackled, when in a marking contest and various other times.

so Filthy and gringo you are both correct with some points and incorrect with others.

Rob you obviously have expertise technically speaking.

I thought you were saying what I was saying....so for interest sake where have I gone wrong? No aggro.

Only the part about breaking tackles with arms. Breaking tackles would mostly use the legs/hips muscles and core. Apart from that it's all correct. I guess that PT training and the Sports Therapy course I'm currently doing comes in handy!

[gringo]

You have to think of the actions of the muscles. Strong chest muscles will always help, When Jonathon Brown is wrestling with an opponent and manages to push him off he is basically doing a bench press action which is an exercise for the pectoral muscles and triceps.

Biceps, lat dorsi, etc are muscles used in a pulling action which would obviously help when tackling.

Shoulder muscles have alot to different actions but the main one in regards to footy would be raising the arms to take a mark.

When it comes to breaking tackles strong muscles in the legs/hips are very important.

A strong core is always important in anything in life, you use your core muscles in every movement you do! Footballers will obviously train to have a stronger core which will help them stay standing when tackled, when in a marking contest and various other times.

so Filthy and gringo you are both correct with some points and incorrect with others.

"Biceps, lat dorsi, etc are muscles used in a pulling action which would obviously help when tackling." A strong core is much more important to execute a good tackle than rippling biceps. Trying to tackle someone with your arms is sure fire way to stuff it up. Ablett spends all day running through arms. You need to use your core.

"Strong chest muscles will always help, When Jonathon Brown is wrestling with an opponent and manages to push him off he is basically doing a bench press action which is an exercise for the pectoral muscles and triceps" Again, core strength is much more important in a marking contest for two reasons. One, a player isn't going to be able to move you if you have stronger hips than he does. I don't care how strong an upper body they have. Two, if you are relying on wrestling your opponent out of the way with your upper body, you are much more likely to give away a free kick, and also won't have your arms free to mark the ball. Being a good contested mark begins, and I'd argue ends, with the hips. Daniel Bradshaw is a gun in these situations. He just sits the bloke on his hip, and then can move them around wherever he wants. He'll only use his arms to hold his position – not to move someone. That's what he uses his legs and hips for.

"Shoulder muscles have alot to different actions but the main one in regards to footy would be raising the arms to take a mark." Hmmm. If blokes don't have the shoulder development to lift their arms above their heads to take a mark, they probably shouldn't be on an AFL lift to begin with. Big shoulders just add unncessary weight and make you less mobile.

Bar throwing a right hook, just about every aspect of AFL requires a a strong core. Having a big upper body is just a complete waste of time.

[Sismis]

Bar throwing a right hook, just about every aspect of AFL requires a a strong core. Having a big upper body is just a complete waste of time.

Actually all boxers and martial artists concentrate on core strength to generate power when punching/kicking.

Upper body strength is still extremely important for almost contested situation, which i believe is Filthy's point. If for nothing else than to generate momentum. Shoulder muscles are involved in every single use of the arms except certain excersises where they are specifically and deliberately excluded (bicep curls).

[Sismis]

How many sprinters have small upperbodys? Correction, how many good sprinters have small upper bodys?

[robrulz5]

You have to think of the actions of the muscles. Strong chest muscles will always help, When Jonathon Brown is wrestling with an opponent and manages to push him off he is basically doing a bench press action which is an exercise for the pectoral muscles and triceps.

Biceps, lat dorsi, etc are muscles used in a pulling action which would obviously help when tackling.

Shoulder muscles have alot to different actions but the main one in regards to footy would be raising the arms to take a mark.

When it comes to breaking tackles strong muscles in the legs/hips are very important.

A strong core is always important in anything in life, you use your core muscles in every movement you do! Footballers will obviously train to have a stronger core which will help them stay standing when tackled, when in a marking contest and various other times.

so Filthy and gringo you are both correct with some points and incorrect with others.

." A strong core is much more important to execute a good tackle than rippling biceps. Trying to tackle someone with your arms is sure fire way to stuff it up. Ablett spends all day running through arms. You need to use your core I did mention the lat. dorsi which is a large muscle of the back, the biceps will assist the lats.

Again, core strength is much more important in a marking contest for two reasons. One, a player isn't going to be able to move you if you have stronger hips than he does. I don't care how strong an upper body they have. Two, if you are relying on wrestling your opponent out of the way with your upper body, you are much more likely to give away a free kick, and also won't have your arms free to mark the ball. Being a good contested mark begins, and I'd argue ends, with the hips. Daniel Bradshaw is a gun in these situations. He just sits the bloke on his hip, and then can move them around wherever he wants. He'll only use his arms to hold his position – not to move someone. That's what he uses his legs and hips for. So you've never seen a player shove another player in the chest to put them out of position in a marking contest? I'll break it down for you. A) two players wrestling while the footy comes towards them. B) one player pushes the other one in the chest which will use their chest muscles. C) their arms are now free to take the mark.

Hmmm. If blokes don't have the shoulder development to lift their arms above their heads to take a mark, they probably shouldn't be on an AFL lift to begin with. Big shoulders just add unncessary weight and make you less mobile. I guess there is never any contact in a marking contest then? No player ever gets knocked, it does get hard to keep their arms in the air when they have 3 guys jumping on top of them, hence having big strong shoulders.

Bar throwing a right hook, just about every aspect of AFL requires a a strong core. Having a big upper body is just a complete waste of time.

You obviously haven't read the part of my post which says the core is used in every movement the body makes. Your post is a case of seeing only what you want to see. I could bet top dollar that by knowledge of the human anatomy and the way the body works in relation to sporting performance is much better than yours.

[gringo]

How many sprinters have small upperbodys? Correction, how many good sprinters have small upper bodys?

Well next time Essendon enter a team in the 4X100m let me know. What's your point?

You need a strong upper-body, there's not question of that. But I'd argue our players have sufficient upper body size. Saying we need to "bulk up" in the upper body, which Filthy's point, is complete and utter bullshit. We need more core strength.

[Sismis]

How many sprinters have small upperbodys? Correction, how many good sprinters have small upper bodys?

Well next time Essendon enter a team in the 4X100m let me know. What's your point?

You need a strong upper-body, there's not question of that. But I'd argue our players have sufficient upper body size. Saying we need to "bulk up" in the upper body, which Filthy's point, is complete and utter bullshit. We need more core strength.

I agree, core strength needs to be no 1. priority. But i aslo agree with Filthy, up untill the point where it affects speed, agility and endurance players need to get as big as they possibly can.

[s'dreams]

"Biceps, lat dorsi, etc are muscles used in a pulling action which would obviously help when tackling."

"Strong chest muscles will always help, When Jonathon Brown is wrestling with an opponent and manages to push him off he is basically doing a bench press action which is an exercise for the pectoral muscles and triceps"

"Shoulder muscles have alot to different actions but the main one in regards to footy would be raising the arms to take a mark."

A player isn't going to be able to move you if you have stronger hips than (s)he does. I don't care how strong an upper body they have.

Geez ... I wish some of my ex girlfriends concentrated on these areas rather than the cellulite busters and aerobics....

Cheers - STI

[Sismis]

Sti, i've actually found that exercise in females actually tends to reduce size in the pectoral region!

This is by no means a universal rule because I have observed (for scientific purposes...) many pole dancers and other gentleman's club employees who seem to do a lot of exercise yet the size of their enormous globular chests never seem to decrease.

Fascinating area of study that will require more extensive investigation.

[robrulz5]

Sti, i've actually found that exercise in females actually tends to reduce size in the pectoral region!

That isn't the muscles reducing in size, it's fat loss...

[robrulz5]

Sprinters have bigger upperbodies to drive them forward quicker in the sprint.

Yep. They use the power in their arms to gain horizontal velocity. The power in their shoulder flexes the arm at a quicker rate than those with weaker shoulders providing more angular momentum.

[BenDoolan]

So we should be seeing the likes of Alwyn Davey and Andrew Lovett being out sprinted by Jonathon Brown types.....

[robrulz5]

So we should be seeing the likes of Alwyn Davey and Andrew Lovett being out sprinted by Jonathon Brown types.....

There are alot of factors that go into a sprint, a strong upper body is only one. Davey & Lovett are alot lighter making it easier for them to move their body at a faster rate and most likely they would have more fast twitch muscle fibers than Brown would.

[BenDoolan]

So we should be seeing the likes of Alwyn Davey and Andrew Lovett being out sprinted by Jonathon Brown types.....

There are alot of factors that go into a sprint, a strong upper body is only one. Davey & Lovett are alot lighter making it easier for them to move their body at a faster rate and most likely they would have more fast twitch muscle fibers than Brown would.

Eggzachary.

So there is no point posting pictures of Mr Atlas and expecting someone like Winderlich to become him.

[Madden]

Good thread.

Making a concerted effort to bulk up is something that becomes easier with age and time. Have a look at how well developed Nick Riewoldt is now compared to when he was 22.

We would want to be careful not to over-bulk our young players up when they don't have the fitness base to handle running with a heavier frame.

[robrulz5]

So we should be seeing the likes of Alwyn Davey and Andrew Lovett being out sprinted by Jonathon Brown types.....

There are alot of factors that go into a sprint, a strong upper body is only one. Davey & Lovett are alot lighter making it easier for them to move their body at a faster rate and most likely they would have more fast twitch muscle fibers than Brown would.

Eggzachary.

So there is no point posting pictures of Mr Atlas and expecting someone like Winderlich to become him.

Don't think anyone did...