Lloyd, Lovett, Lucas and McPhee

[saladin]

Did someone mention Brownlow votes and objective in the same sentence?

[Madden]

Both arguments in this thread have merit, and it's silly for anyone to say anything otherwise.

Its true that we were hit by injury quite hard last year, and yes its true that we have an up and coming list which should improve next year. But it is also true that we are losing about 800 odd games of experience, including two key forwards and our most damaging midfielder. To say that we will 100% make the 8 or be pushing towards top 4 is a bit optimistic. Its certainly possible, but our kids probably arent quite there yet and there's no subsitute for experience.

On Lovett. I find it bemusing that people are seriously arguing that he wasn't in our best players last year based on his placing in the B&F. When those results came out, everyone on this forum bemoned that he shouldn't have been so low and the general hypothesis was that he was so low because the coaching staff were down on him (a fact that has obviously proved true). FFS, he finished below Slattery in the B&F. Would anyone argue that Slattery was a better player than Lovett last year? Of course not - so don't use the B&F results selectively to prove your point.

The truth is that Lovett, even with his defensive deficiences, was definately in our best 3-4 players last year, by anyone's estimations. He finished a clear 2nd in the Bombertalk B&F. He'll be missed.

The other inescapable truth is that next year, even with the inclusion of Williams, we will probably line up with the 2nd most inexperienced forward line in the comp. I was a supporter of the Lloyd retirement and still am, but we're kidding ourselves if we don't realise that Gumbleton, Neagle, Still etc etc won't take some time to establish themselves (and that's if they all make it, which is best case scenario). Even the club recognises this fact - it was why they traded for Williams.

[tom9779]

entertaining thread.

yes we have lost a lot of experience. but it had to happen at some point. mcphee wasnt playing in another premiership with essendon, lloyd and lucas are done. Lovett is a bit of a mystery, but then again you read stuff and he wanted to go.

its hard to place the bombers next year.

[billyduckworth]

Both arguments in this thread have merit, and it's silly for anyone to say anything otherwise.

Its true that we were hit by injury quite hard last year, and yes its true that we have an up and coming list which should improve next year. But it is also true that we are losing about 800 odd games of experience, including two key forwards and our most damaging midfielder. To say that we will 100% make the 8 or be pushing towards top 4 is a bit optimistic. Its certainly possible, but our kids probably arent quite there yet and there's no subsitute for experience.

Interesting thread. Leaving aside the personal comments and mudslinging (which are entertaining but don't really add to the argument), I think Staggy has summed it up best. It could easily go either way. Four big changes could provide a big opportunity for youngsters to step up. But I can also see it going the other way, especially if we get major injuries or lose early games badly and therefore lose confidence. I personally think top4 is VERY optimistic, but anywhere between 5th and 15th is possible, depending on how it all pans out. Either way, it won't be boring!

[stryper]

We will make the 8 - I am Very confident of this...
Bring Hille back to massive inclusion.
Gumby ready to make a stance...
Hurley - has had some experience now and will be a gun.
Williams - is a gun lol - seriously a good pick up.
Laycock - could be anything.
Zach - ready to fire...
Houli - more game time.
Reimers - injury free season please???
Welsh - ready to fire with injury free preparation...
Prismall - Full preseason under his belt and will be an awesome player for us...
Stanton - getting better and better and will really step up...
Hooker - has shown some very good things...
Ryder - what more can be said - will have the back up...
Watson - a star already.
Fletch - clone him...
Dempsey - very damaging when fit.
Winder - just runs and runs...
slattery - could be anything.
Still - big wraps - will he be what they say he is???
Neagle - I believe he has shown very good signs and is more than capable of stepping up...
Mcveigh - Can be a very good player and will show leadership...
Dyson - took the next step that was needed...

players gone - Mcphee - Traitor... Mr. inconsistent Could be very good or very bad... We will more than cover him...
Lloydy and Lucas - Have been awesome players for our club but lets face the facts...
They were both well past their best and only showed patches of brilliance last year...
Lucas especially cost us last year - couldn't perform... and Lloydy - really that hit was the best thing he did for the club...

To all those people that say bottom 4 and No Leadership,Absolute crap... - I laugh as we Are on the Up...

As for the Knights baggers - really have a hard look and you will see that he is cutting off the dead wood...Has got the Team going places and Most important - Essendon is excited about the future...
Go Bombers 2010...
I am excited Bring it on...

[stryper]

Oh and I forgot to mention Mr.Tayte Pears...
Was an awesome player for us last year and is getting better and better...
We are Building a great Team...
Go Bombers 2010

[Windy_Hill]

Laycock - could be anything.
slattery - could be anything.

OMG - The Gring is going to get Rabid over this!!! I can hear a "Junkity Junk" coming on

[gringo]

Laycock - could be anything.
slattery - could be anything.

OMG - The Gring is going to get Rabid over this!!! I can hear a "Junkity Junk" coming on

I reckon Laycock is alright. His ruckwork is very very good - superior to Hille. If he gets a good fitness base up over the summer, and can remain injury free, I reckon he'll have a good year.

Slattery horrid. Terrible decisions, gets caught with the ball too often, gives away a huge number of silly free kicks, doesn't create any run. He won't be a regular come the end of the season, subject to injuries.

[Ossie]

Laycock - could be anything.
slattery - could be anything.

OMG - The Gring is going to get Rabid over this!!! I can hear a "Junkity Junk" coming on

I reckon Laycock is alright. His ruckwork is very very good - superior to Hille. If he gets a good fitness base up over the summer, and can remain injury free, I reckon he'll have a good year.

Only problem is Laycock doesn't give a shit and therefore won't get up a decent fitness base and therefore won't have a good year. He's junk.

[Sismis]

I reckon Laycock is alright. His ruckwork is very very good - superior to Hille. If he gets a good fitness base up over the summer, and can remain injury free, I reckon he'll have a good year.

What do you base this on? I agree Laycock will be good this year, but his ruckwork is nowhere near Hille's. In 08 Hille and Wato were one of if not the best ruck/rover combos in the league. Laycock's impact wll be up forward where he is a strong contested mark and an excellent kick.

[gringo]

I reckon Laycock is alright. His ruckwork is very very good - superior to Hille. If he gets a good fitness base up over the summer, and can remain injury free, I reckon he'll have a good year.

What do you base this on? I agree Laycock will be good this year, but his ruckwork is nowhere near Hille's. In 08 Hille and Wato were one of if not the best ruck/rover combos in the league. Laycock's impact wll be up forward where he is a strong contested mark and an excellent kick.

Sitting in the stands watching him compete in ruck contests.

That Hille/Watson stat is misleading. You stick any half decent ruckman in the middle with Watson and Watson will clean out.

If both Hille and LeCoq can remain injury free this year, and Ryder if they want to play him there, we will clean out in the ruck. I am ITCHING to see Ryder play whole games at FF.

[Windy_Hill]

I reckon 2010 may be the Year of the Lazy Penis

[bomberdonnie]

I reckon Laycock is alright. His ruckwork is very very good - superior to Hille. If he gets a good fitness base up over the summer, and can remain injury free, I reckon he'll have a good year.

What do you base this on? I agree Laycock will be good this year, but his ruckwork is nowhere near Hille's. In 08 Hille and Wato were one of if not the best ruck/rover combos in the league. Laycock's impact wll be up forward where he is a strong contested mark and an excellent kick.

Sitting in the stands watching him compete in ruck contests.

That Hille/Watson stat is misleading. You stick any half decent ruckman in the middle with Watson and Watson will clean out.

If both Hille and LeCoq can remain injury free this year, and Ryder if they want to play him there, we will clean out in the ruck. I am ITCHING to see Ryder play whole games at FF.

Would be hard to judge seeing as you don't stay around for the second half don't you think gringo?

[DC]

It could quite easily go either way. Let's face it in order to make a dent next year we will need improvement. If it comes we will do OK, I agree with robbie it will be a similar win/loss to this year. If we don't get improvement then we could well be sitting at the bottom end.

For mine improvement will come from the following areas.

1. Hille. Sorely missed when we came up against the gorrilas last year. Also goes forward and kicks goals.
2. Welsh and Spike. Unlike some I believe last year was an abberation rather than the norm. Welsh to play his negating role, while still getting touches and Spike to provide toughness and supurb delivery from the mdifield. Many people seem to forget Welsh was not supposed to get back at all last year.
3. Prismal, showed a lot of class and tenacity last year depsite coming back from injury. With a straight run at it he will very effective.
4. Williams. One of our major deficiencies last year was goals from small forwards. He will add 30-40 goals.
5. Ryder, released from permenant ruck duties he can play anywhere. He can drop back in defence, go forward and kick goals (perferably after taking hangers) or play in a wing/mid-field role. His flexibility will give us a lot of tactical options.
6. I would expect natural improvement after a year of footy and a full preseason from Pears, and Hurley.
7. Year 3 of Knights gameplan. It has improved every year as our skills have. Losing Lovett hurts but we have plenty of speedsters who can keep it going.

There are many other players with a lot of room for improvement, how many of these come on will have a massive say in how go.

Plus i will reiterate this.

Sydney- No Jolley, aging list, they will go backwards
Port- They are getting Cloke FFS
Carlton-Will stuggle to kick big scores, their defence is still ordinary
North-mediocrity
Freo-rabble
Melbourne-will improve but still rebuilding
WC-as per melbourne
Tigers-At as close to 6 o'clock as a team can get.

It could be another default finals campaign but to finish similar to this year will be a step forward.

Nice post sismis. I fully agree.

[saladin]

Laycock - could be anything.
slattery - could be anything.

OMG - The Gring is going to get Rabid over this!!! I can hear a "Junkity Junk" coming on

I reckon Laycock is alright. His ruckwork is very very good - superior to Hille. If he gets a good fitness base up over the summer, and can remain injury free, I reckon he'll have a good year.

Slattery horrid. Terrible decisions, gets caught with the ball too often, gives away a huge number of silly free kicks, doesn't create any run. He won't be a regular come the end of the season, subject to injuries.

i think you'll find he was talking about Tyson. Not Henry.

[j-mac31]

Lovett definitely will be missed.

McPhee brings far too much shitness to most games and plays roles that can easily be filled by others.

Lloyd and Lucas are too old and too slow to play well in enough games to be worth retaining. Also, they decided to retire themselves, so no point hoping they'd still play.

[j-mac31]

Gringo: do you actually want Lloyd and Lucas in the team next year?