New Fixturing System PART TWO

[Windy_Hill]

The 2 conferences would be based on the previous year's ladder positions. So based on the ladder as it is today, the Conferences would be as follows

Conf A - Gee, Fre, WB, Car, NM, Bris, Mel, Ade, Gold Coast
Conf B - SK, Coll, Syd, Haw, Ess, Port, WCE, Ric, Greater Western Sydney

Thats 9 teams in each Conference. They would play each other twice a season, home and away - thats 16 games.

After Round 16, you then have sides from both Conferences playing each other once - thats a further 8 games givng you a 24 games H&A Season

This is so much fairer as it removes the AFL from influencing the draw to favour its own agenda (eg Ess always playing Syd in Sydney). The only potential risk is that by the luck of the draw, some teams may have to travel interstate more than others?? Oh well, so be it. With 8 of the 18 teams being non-Victorian, then Victorian clubs better get used to the travel.

I still think a final 8 is sufficient and would not want to see this changed. As it is, 8 is arguably too many in the finals with a real gulf between the Top team and the 8th team

Welcome any thoughts on this

[bomberdonnie]

I dont mind the idea WH and there is definitely a need for radical change.

Do you think that the conferences would stay the same each year or change based on every previous years ladder? I am guessing the latter

I also think that the single games against the other conference should be mixed into the season with games against the same conference. This would help with fixturing and potentially stop teams from extended weeks of travel.

I also like the wild card system so the top 3 from each group would qualify for the finals and the top 2 teams also being included no matter what conference they are from. This would be so that we didnt see the 4th team qualifying on say 52 points with the 5th being on 48 and missing out to a team finishing 4th in the other group on 44.

[Rossoneri]

I think that the conference should stay the same, however how do we split it up, and how often do we play each other?

Maybe we can do it similar to NFL. Take a 9-team conference, you play everyone in your conference twice (Home and Away) and then play the team from the other conference who finished in the same position on the ladder as you home and away. That would give you 18 games for the season, and 20 games when we end up with 20 teams.

However, doubt the AFL will go with that, they will end up having a 26 game season and no pre-season comp.

[Windy_Hill]

However, doubt the AFL will go with that, they will end up having a 26 game season and no pre-season comp.

Not sure about this Rosso, the AFL did come out saying that the mandatories included a minimum of three weeks of pre-season comp.

But it does look like a conference system is on their Radar

[dom_105]

I like it.

Two "conferences" formed with the sole purpose of constructing the draw. Odds v Evens, based on last year's ladder. Everybody plays each other at least once, no mickey mouse NASCAR-style "chase for the cup", no large deviation from the status quo.

I have nothing fundamentally against any conference system. It works well in United States professional and college sports, but I don't see the need for it.

[Windy_Hill]

I like it.

Two "conferences" formed with the sole purpose of constructing the draw. Odds v Evens, based on last year's ladder. Everybody plays each other at least once, no mickey mouse NASCAR-style "chase for the cup", no large deviation from the status quo.

I have nothing fundamentally against any conference system. It works well in United States professional and college sports, but I don't see the need for it.

The need for it is that the current system is completely inequitable. Add 2 new teams and it only gets worse. The AFL is currently calling for submissions on the way the draw can be structured so I suppose something will be changing

[Jazz_84]

to start with i did not like the idea at all but i'm coming around to this proposed system, it would work a lot better and give a much better draw for the EFC

[dom_105]

I like it.

Two "conferences" formed with the sole purpose of constructing the draw. Odds v Evens, based on last year's ladder. Everybody plays each other at least once, no mickey mouse NASCAR-style "chase for the cup", no large deviation from the status quo.

I have nothing fundamentally against any conference system. It works well in United States professional and college sports, but I don't see the need for it.

The need for it is that the current system is completely inequitable. Add 2 new teams and it only gets worse. The AFL is currently calling for submissions on the way the draw can be structured so I suppose something will be changing

I don't mean in the sense of setting up the draw. I think that if the draw was structured by splitting up the odds and evens and ensuring that each team plays the teams in their group twice and the others once, It would mean that generally speaking, every single team would have the same draw in terms of difficulty compared to other teams in the competition. (not withstanding that, by definition, lower teams will always have tougher draws than top teams)

I just think that having two or three seperate conferences, with their own ladders, and a playoff season doesn't really add much to the competition.

[Windy_Hill]

In my opinion, any fixture that is determined by ladder position, odd and evens etc is better than the current system as it is fully transparent. The current system is based on the AFL's own agenda (broadcast rights, supporting interstate teams) as well as team lobbying (all teams are invited to submit their own fixture "wish list" every year)

If we can get rid of these factors then I would be 100% happier that you get a fixture pretty much based on the luck of the draw rather than some hidden agenda

[Jazz_84]

gotta wonder if their hidden agenda was so important if they would even consider a conference type setup, maybe the change would create enough to warrant the loses, who knows time will tell

im very fast loving the conference setup, but i don't like the fact the games history as it is now will stop to a degree

[j-mac31]

Not sure about this Rosso, the AFL did come out saying that the mandatories included a minimum of three weeks of pre-season comp.

No, they said pre-season. There will not necessarily be a competition. FWIW I don't think we need a comp, just play a couple of practice matches then get into it.

[Windy_Hill]

Not sure about this Rosso, the AFL did come out saying that the mandatories included a minimum of three weeks of pre-season comp.

No, they said pre-season. There will not necessarily be a competition. FWIW I don't think we need a comp, just play a couple of practice matches then get into it.

In that case I agree, no need for competitve pre-season games. A couple of inter-club friendlies should do the trick.

[Gimps]

What's wrong with everyone playing each other once.. then.. our old friends at the AFL can get one of those old style bingo machines and draw the rest of the games that way. Completely luck of the draw, nothing pre-determined by the AFl. Hell, they could borrow the Powrball machine off Tatts if they wanted to make things more interesting.

[Gyoza]

I'm in favour of a 17 game season.

Knowing that is pretty much unacceptable to the AFL, TV networks and the media in general, I would favour two conferences.

As suggested above an odds v evens from the previous years' ladder would work very well, with the conferences being changed along these lines each year.

Each team plays the teams in their own conference twice and the teams in the other conference once, with the top 4 of each conference going into the finals (need to work out how to be ranked 1st-8th and keep current finals system).

While radical changes are being made I believe now is the time to make the change with the massive opportunity we are missing - AFL All Star Game. Play it the week after the Grand Final ala NFL if injuries and player fatigue are such a worry.
Victoria v The Rest - with players lining up based on their CLUB, rather than place of birth. If The Rest are not willing to accept that the Vics have more clubs, than just make it along conference lines.
The quality of teams this game would produce would be awesome to watch.

Sadly I know this is never going to happen, and I do respect the traditions of State of Origin that the older members of this board would recall, but I just think this would be fantastic to watch and a massive marketing win for the AFL every year.

[j-mac31]

Each team plays the teams in their own conference twice and the teams in the other conference once, with the top 4 of each conference going into the finals (need to work out how to be ranked 1st-8th and keep current finals system).

This.

I would rank the final 8 by win-loss regardless of conference and play keep the current finals system.
Conference finals make it more likely that we4'd have a 2007 situation where a preliminary final is better than the granny. Obviously that could still happen, but less likely if everyone is mixed together.

Also, there is talk of wildcard finals entries.
I am opposed:
1. Increasing the chances of uncompetitive first-week finals.
2. Not necessary in a two conference, no division set-up. Just put in the top 4 from each side.
If there were 3 conferences (as has been suggested), go with the top 2 from each and then have two wildcard spots for the two next best teams.

[Gimps]

I like it.

Two "conferences" formed with the sole purpose of constructing the draw. Odds v Evens, based on last year's ladder. Everybody plays each other at least once, no mickey mouse NASCAR-style "chase for the cup", no large deviation from the status quo.

I have nothing fundamentally against any conference system. It works well in United States professional and college sports, but I don't see the need for it.

The conference system in the States if flawed too.. Some teams will never be able to play certain other teams in a Superbowl for example, due to the conference set-up.

[MH_Bomber]

It great because its my idea Windy.

I submitted it to the AFL last week and it an extension on one of my previous posts based on a proper draw for the current 16 teams. All I have done is change 8 to 9 teams but the logic still the same. I have also sent emails to various footy media personalities about it.

Let me refer you to ;

This was post in a post from last July 'Which draw do you prefer ?' http://www.bombertalk4.com/search.php?k ... mit=Search

This is my favoured solution to the draw anomalies. It involves us possibly relinquishing ANZAC day game some years.

Top 8 from previous year's result play each other twice. Bottom 8 from previous year's play each other twice. Top 8 from previous year's result play bottom 8 once.

So rounds 1 - 7 top 8 play each of the other sides that finished in the top 8 from prior year
bottom 8 play each of the other sides that finished in the bottom 8 from prior year
Rounds 8 - 15 top 8 play bottom 8
Rounds 16 - 22 top 8 play each of the other sides that finished in the top 8 from prior year
bottom 8 play each of the other sides that finished in the bottom 8 from prior year

The beauty of this is that you ensure everyone has played everyone in rounds 1 -15. The sides you play twice are based on the form from last year. It involves no tweaking to serve vested interests. Some years you might only have one derby or showdown. Some years you might only play the filth or the scum once. I see this as very fair.

It look like you like it then too Windy. I mean to me its an obvious transparent and clear solution to all the anomalies. What they AFL perceives it will lose on the swings like in possibly not having 8 blockbusters or local derbies they will gain on the roundabouts by evening out the draw for the bottom teams.

[84859300]

I think as the number of teams increased and the possibilities of teams folding (or merging) decreased, that this was a logical way to go. It's certainly not a new idea as the AFL were touting such concepts up to at least 3 or so years ago and with the inbalance in the fixtures emerging, something had to change.

My opinion in how this would work better would be to dump the NAB cup, play two practice games in the bush at best and then get to the season proper. Much like the F1 reduction in testing to save money, restrict how many times the club officially can train before a certain date i.e. Feb 28 (leaving a month or so before round 1) so players have a bit more longevity in their bodies and run the season out. 24 rounds plus 5 weeks of finals (if there has to be a wild card game) and you gain some balance in the fixture. October grand final.

An extra game per round should ring updouble headers for a Friday night. Live coverage will compensate for an early start and the second game could be played out West for the sponsor dollars. Sure Freo and the Eagles would get coverage, but it wouldn't be prime time East Coast time and the fans wanting the second game would still be catered for. TV coverage should still finish around the 11.30pm mark, which is the norm for the delayed telecast now anyways.

The AFL will get its wish and abandon the "traditional blockbuster games" such as Anzac day, Queens Birthday etc. I don't think that if they get the choice that they would want to be held as much as they have with Ess V Coll when you have media 'experts' like KB calling for either last years grand finalists or the two top teams of the week before playing on the day. Even though we built the day with the Pies (which I am a big fan of), under the new structure, there is a big chance they may not be in our conference and that we only play them once a year.....possibly in August

Over time there will be a weaker confrence and drafts may not nessesarily compensate for that in the short term. Free agencies and short term contacts will become more prevelent, along with the feeder leagues such as the VFL, SANFL, QAFL etc. I would hope there would have to be a date to submit a final list (like the MLB) with how you are planning on finishing the year, say by round 18. But I could see the game becoming a bit of a meat market over time for the non core players. But that is digressing.

I would expect that something would already be in place for fixturing and that we will hear about it quite soon, possibly before next season kicks off for play in 2011 to start in 2012. New emphasis on mini grand finals for conference champions, new stats in wins in and out of conference etc. Possibly an exciting time for our game in the next year or two.

[Windy_Hill]

By the way

I would also suggest that you only have one ladder which reflects the actual results/percentage of all teams regardless of what conference they are in. As such, the final 8 will be the best performed 8 teams of the year based on wins and percentage, just as it is today. Its quite possible in this case that the finals will feature more teams from one conference as opposed to the other, depending on results

[84859300]

By the way

I would also suggest that you only have one ladder which reflects the actual results/percentage of all teams regardless of what conference they are in. As such, the final 8 will be the best performed 8 teams of the year based on wins and percentage, just as it is today. Its quite possible in this case that the finals will feature more teams from one conference as opposed to the other, depending on results

That's what wildcard games are for. It pits the next best teams in the conference that haven't clinched a finals spot, a chance to win into the draw against the lowest qualifier. That may mean that a fourth team from one conference with 12 wins might square off with a 15 win 5th team from another for a chance to make the finals.

It's not what we are currently used to, but I think that you'd still eventually have the two best side play off for the GF.

Not many teams win it from below 5th in the final 8 we have now.