Our Best 22 - Still Unknown?

[Windy_Hill]

So it would seem.

After three years of the Knightmare, I dont know about you, but I have no idea whether half of our squad can play or not. Then lo and behold, the coach himself admits that he doesnt know either?!

The problem is, we never seem to get a good read on some players as they are in and out of the firsts before they have a chance to settle. (Houli, Atkinson, Myers, Quinn, Howlett spring to mind)

Certain players seem to get game time regardless of form (Welsh, McVeigh, Slattery, Dyson, Stanton)

Average players do enough to keep you wondering (Hocking, Lonergan, Hooker, Neagle)

Quality players who dont do enough when they are clearly capable of more (Dempsey, Winderlich, Monfries, Myers, Prismall)

Enigmatic Players that excite then infuriate (Jetta, Davey, Ryder)

Youthful Players where expectations are high simply because of their Draft Number (Hurley, Gumbleton, Melksham)

Unknown Players who grace the fields of Bendigo (Still, Slattery, Daniher, Long, etc)

The only thing for sure is that Hille, Watson, Pears and Fletcher are the only ones in my opinion who truly qualify (deserve to be) as certain starters every week.

[rockhole]

What has really hurt us recently is two of your key certain starters have been recently off the park for various reasons. I reckon Fletch's absence has cost us at least 4 goals a match

[gringo]

We don't have a best 22.

We've got, drawing a long bow, a best 6. After that we've got 16 fetid donkies who don't deserve a game but get one anyway.

[swoodley]

We don't have a best 22.

We've got, drawing a long bow, a best 6. After that we've got 16 fetid donkies who don't deserve a game but get one anyway.

Good to see you're back to your usual quality posting Gringo...why is it that you're so active only when you get the chance to put the boot in?

[CSol]

How can we possibly have any idea of the quality of our list under Knights!!

Given the right coach with the right game plan, who is to say our list isnt up to it? You guys stick the boots in to every player every week, but if the game plan is rubbish, the selection rubbish, hell training is probably rubbish, how are these guys supposed to perform at the highest level.

Get rid of this hack of a coach and get a real coach to come in and slowly evolve our list. Sacking the entire list is both unnecessary and also not an option with the lack of picks available for the next 3 years.

Someone should have Knights answer these questions.

How can Prismal, who was out of the cats premiership side only due to injury, not cut the mustard in a side that cant even make the 8?
How can Williams, who has proven goal kicking ability, be doing stuff all at VFL level after signing him up for 3 years on a reasonable contract?
How the hell can even Kepler Bradley a player the club disposed of a a no good underperformer, find himself in the 22 of a better peforming club and playing well?
How is it that our young talent such as Ryder, Myers, Gumbleton, Hurley, Dempsey etc. continue to 'develop', whilst top draft picks at other clubs flourish?
How is it, Barlow, who trained with our group, was overlooked for a bloke who you cannot slot in our 22?
If you took Barlow would he have got a game every week playing for you?
Would he have been successful playing for you?
Has any young player shown more than a glimpse of something playing for you?
Are you seeing any consistancies here?

Put simply, the qualtiy of our list can only be gauged when we have trust in the quality of our coach. A good coach will balance thier list to have a good mix of strengths and weaknesses so that each player compliments the team. A bad coach throws people around demanding they contribute to areas they clearly are not suited to. There is also a fine line between givening players roles as a development opportunity and simply burying any confidence your player has that he can make it to the level required with his strengths, even though it was on the basis of these strengths that the player was clearly drafted.

I don’t believe our recruiters are so terrible that they can't manage to find us one A-grade footballer. It just seems rediculous that they could possibly get it so wrong so many times. More likley, we have some A-graders on our list that we haven't even identified yet, because our shit house coach is severely hindering their development.

Only have to look at Tony Shaw, Frawley, even our very own Timmy and to a slightly lesser extent Wallace, to understand what a bad coach can do with a descent list (we will soon be able to add Ratts to that list as Scum list improves yet they fail to do anything with it). Malthouse is the perfect example of a coach who can make good players of ordinary talent. Allot of these blokes showing big things at Collingwood have so many glaring weaknesses they would be laugable under most other coaches. But he makes them a unit, a team that is aware of how to utilise a players strengths and try to mitigate weaknesses. Other coaches of this note are Roos, Thomson, Harvey and Choco.

And yes, I believe Choco has to be our man. I think he hs been hard done by with 7-8 of his best 22 (he actually knows who they are for starters) out of the team, and he is out of PA because of issues with the baord more than anything else. Get him over to us and he will have our best 22 worked out by rd 1 next year guaranteed.

[gringo]

We don't have a best 22.

We've got, drawing a long bow, a best 6. After that we've got 16 fetid donkies who don't deserve a game but get one anyway.

Good to see you're back to your usual quality posting Gringo...why is it that you're so active only when you get the chance to put the boot in?

I've said we've got a best 6. That's positive. I could have said we have 22 fetid donkies.

I was overseas whilst we were playing well this year so wasn't in a position to comment.

I think you've unfairly categorised me due to my use of flowery adjectives.

[little_ripper]

Prismall - c'mon any bloke would look good playing with the cats. Ask freo about des headland.
Williams - dodgy achilles, perhaps dodgy body. the hawks did let him walk, perhaps for a reason?
Kepler is playing ok at Freo good on him, I'm still glad hes gone.
Barlow was a mistake, but heck from all reports Hardingham looked just as good.

And i am not totally convinced Mark Williams(Port) is the answer at Essendon.

Lets see if Matty Knights can pull the side out of the doldrums now and put some good form together for the rest of the year. If he can't...well then maybe the club should look at alternatives.

[swoodley]

We don't have a best 22.

We've got, drawing a long bow, a best 6. After that we've got 16 fetid donkies who don't deserve a game but get one anyway.

Good to see you're back to your usual quality posting Gringo...why is it that you're so active only when you get the chance to put the boot in?

I've said we've got a best 6. That's positive. I could have said we have 22 fetid donkies.

I was overseas whilst we were playing well this year so wasn't in a position to comment.

I think you've unfairly categorised me due to my use of flowery adjectives.

Nice response

[CSol]

Prismall - c'mon any bloke would look good playing with the cats. Ask freo about des headland.
Williams - dodgy achilles, perhaps dodgy body. the hawks did let him walk, perhaps for a reason?
Kepler is playing ok at Freo good on him, I'm still glad hes gone.
Barlow was a mistake, but heck from all reports Hardingham looked just as good.

And i am not totally convinced Mark Williams(Port) is the answer at Essendon.

Lets see if Matty Knights can pull the side out of the doldrums now and put some good form together for the rest of the year. If he can't...well then maybe the club should look at alternatives.

Any bloke would look good playing with the Cat's but not every bloke makes their best 22. Prismal did. Not saying he is a star, but surely good enough for our best 22. Des Headland is irrellivant, he was traded to be a star, but he wasn't a star. He still held his own in their 22 as an average player surely Pris is at very least capable of the same.
Williams - Not that I follow the two's but my understanding is that until recently he has been playing in the two's. If his body is dodgee rest him, otherwise no reason he shouldn't make it in our best 22. Hawks have Cyril rioli, Buddy and Roughead, why would they be concerned losing williams if it free's up salary cap room for Cyril.
I'm also glad Kep is gone, my point is average players can be useful. Nothing wrong with Stanton, NLM and some other blokes who are chastized around here. In the right team they would perform above average, might even star based on the fact they are infinately better than Kep.
If Hardingham looked just as good, why isnt he in our best 22?

I think the quesion re Barlow sums it up, im convinced if we took Barlow and Freo went with Hardingham (not that they would have), it would be Barlow rotting away in the rezzies with Hardingham tearing it up for Freo. They just have a better mix and are coached better, this makes their players look better.

[Windy_Hill]

Put simply, the qualtiy of our list can only be gauged when we have trust in the quality of our coach. A good coach will balance thier list to have a good mix of strengths and weaknesses so that each player compliments the team. A bad coach throws people around demanding they contribute to areas they clearly are not suited to. There is also a fine line between givening players roles as a development opportunity and simply burying any confidence your player has that he can make it to the level required with his strengths, even though it was on the basis of these strengths that the player was clearly drafted.

I don’t believe our recruiters are so terrible that they can't manage to find us one A-grade footballer. It just seems rediculous that they could possibly get it so wrong so many times. More likley, we have some A-graders on our list that we haven't even identified yet, because our shit house coach is severely hindering their development.

I think you have made some very sound points here CSol -my fear is that we are systematically ruining the confidence of numerous players and as such, may never see their best. Sure, some players just dont fit the 'culture' and often, you only see their best when the move to another club. However, I am sure that Houli, Atkinson, Myers and Howlett would be better players today if they had received the unconditional selection that Gumbleton has received to date - and lets be honest, Gumby to date has not set the world on fire - but at least he is being given every chance to develop.

[little_ripper]

Prismall - c'mon any bloke would look good playing with the cats. Ask freo about des headland.
Williams - dodgy achilles, perhaps dodgy body. the hawks did let him walk, perhaps for a reason?
Kepler is playing ok at Freo good on him, I'm still glad hes gone.
Barlow was a mistake, but heck from all reports Hardingham looked just as good.

And i am not totally convinced Mark Williams(Port) is the answer at Essendon.

Lets see if Matty Knights can pull the side out of the doldrums now and put some good form together for the rest of the year. If he can't...well then maybe the club should look at alternatives.

Any bloke would look good playing with the Cat's but not every bloke makes their best 22. Prismal did. Not saying he is a star, but surely good enough for our best 22. Des Headland is irrellivant, he was traded to be a star, but he wasn't a star. He still held his own in their 22 as an average player surely Pris is at very least capable of the same.
Williams - Not that I follow the two's but my understanding is that until recently he has been playing in the two's. If his body is dodgee rest him, otherwise no reason he shouldn't make it in our best 22. Hawks have Cyril rioli, Buddy and Roughead, why would they be concerned losing williams if it free's up salary cap room for Cyril.
I'm also glad Kep is gone, my point is average players can be useful. Nothing wrong with Stanton, NLM and some other blokes who are chastized around here. In the right team they would perform above average, might even star based on the fact they are infinately better than Kep.
If Hardingham looked just as good, why isnt he in our best 22?

I think the quesion re Barlow sums it up, im convinced if we took Barlow and Freo went with Hardingham (not that they would have), it would be Barlow rotting away in the rezzies with Hardingham tearing it up for Freo. They just have a better mix and are coached better, this makes their players look better.

At the time Des Headland was traded he was regarded as a gun. He polled I think 16 brownlow votes in 2002, the year before he got traded. So I think mentioning him is more than relevant in an argument that Prismall should be good simply because he came from the Cats. Since leave Brisbane Headland's been a dud. I haven't seen Prismall set the world on fire yet either.(just glimpses)

re: Fremantle, would you have said they were coached better based on the last 3 seasons when they finished 11th,14th and 14th? IFreo have found some good players and are playing good football this year, but whats not to say the same will not apply at essendon next year?

Hardingham hasn't come on as well as Barlow(obviously he hasn't), we are shit out of luck on that one. From what I heard Fremantle were just as keen on Hardingham as we were, but we got him first, turned out we should have gone Barlow.

[Gimps]

Add David Rodan to the list.. another that trained with us, another that we ignored.

[lozza89]

Add David Rodan to the list.. another that trained with us, another that we ignored.

Rodan was no good at Richmond. Has only started playing well a couple years into his move to Port Adelaide
You can't say that about every player who trained with us, we would be here all day.