Pre-Season BRAINSTORMING

[Ossie]

Phase 9...totally think outside the square. Lloydy is what 31? B. Hall is 34 and just licked 74 goals so far this year. If you leave Lloydy in the square or 30m arc out why not? His body will be OK. His nemisis is gone. Think outside the square...get 2 years out of him?....WIP

Agree with most of that .... but you're not seriously suggesting we get Lloyd back are you? He's 32, will be 33 next April, and probably hasn't run around the block in the last 12 months. I love Lloydy, my favourite player ever, but let it go.

[Sismis]

Lloydy will take us to our next flag? What will winning a couple more games really do for our development? One of the reasons we got rid of sheedy was for doing exactly that.

Get A grade midfeilder. What an amazing idea! Why havn't we thought of that before?

We need one thing and that is time. Unfortunately that is the one thing we are not willing to invest.

[Ossie]

Phase 9...totally think outside the square. Lloydy is what 31? B. Hall is 34 and just licked 74 goals so far this year. If you leave Lloydy in the square or 30m arc out why not? His body will be OK. His nemisis is gone. Think outside the square...get 2 years out of him?....WIP

Agree with most of that .... but you're not seriously suggesting we get Lloyd back are you? He's 32, will be 33 next April, and probably hasn't run around the block in the last 12 months. I love Lloydy, my favourite player ever, but let it go.

Ossie...just putting it out there....thinking outside the square...its called brainstorming in which you come out with heaps of crazy/not so crazy, out there ideas and at the end of the day if you get 12 great ideas its a win.

If you're thinking outside the square, you're so far from the square you can't even see it.
Thing is, we don't need outside the square thinking. It's the simple things we are doing badly - match day tactics, facilities, development of young players, all the key ingredients of the best clubs in the country which, sadly, we are not any more.
As they say - it aint rocket surgery.

[Gimps]

As long as the preseason training is crisp and efficient like last year, we'll be right

[boncer34]

Lloydy will take us to our next flag? What will winning a couple more games really do for our development? One of the reasons we got rid of sheedy was for doing exactly that.

Get A grade midfeilder. What an amazing idea! Why havn't we thought of that before?

We need one thing and that is time. Unfortunately that is the one thing we are not willing to invest.

Sarcasm equals the lowest form of wit....

You clearly do not have the intelligence to have the slightest idea of the concept of brainstorming and the role it plays in business and all walks of life.

Having a crack at someones intelligence everytime they disagree with you is not exactly a high form of wit either Filth.

[gringo]

Lloyd should never have been let go when he was. However, as a club, I can't see what we'd stand to gain from getting him back, in the event that he was interested, which I doubt highly he would be. The treatment of Lloyd was appalling at the end of his career.

Tayte in the mids worth a go I reckon. We've got some young tall timber around that can hold down a key defensive post, or at least pretend to, whilst Pears is off chasing the aggot further up the ground. He moves superbly and has fantastic skills. Probably not too dissimilar to Goddard Filthy. Fair call.

I'd be extremely aggresive in this trading period. I wouldn't have a problem trading any of the players on the list if the price was right. Probably Pears, Hurley, Hille and Ryder the only keeps I'd say.

[Rossoneri]

Clearly we are now 3 more years behind the 8 ball after the mess Sheeds/Jackson left behind. Knights however has totally replenished the list with a lot of good kids who need good coaching and teaching. This will be his legacy. Having up to 20 injured player a couple of weeks ago can't have helped, and the most totally unfair "draw" in the AFL in 2010.

So what needs to be done in the off season.

Phase 1 - Sack Knights....tick.

Phase 2 - get rid of Campo, Prescott & Hickmott.....2 down 1 to go.

Phase 3...get the best available experienced coach and surround him with everything he needs up to the standard that Robson and Hammo saw in Adelaide and the Dawks and were horrified not to see here...forward coach who actually played there, backs coach and so on....Work in Progress....(WIP).

Phase 4....Get at least 1 top mid fielder. ....WIP.

Phase 5....Choose carefully those on the list/s we feel aren't going to make it or can be used to get Phase 4.

Phase 6....Give Cormack and Doc Reid whatever it takes so that Windy Hill becomes a centre of Sports Medicine and Training excellence. Whatever it takes....WIP.

Phase 7....I am not sure what time we are obliged to give the players off but as most have been AWOL for a few months waiting for the end of the year, they should be pretty fresh. Straight into training with the balls....WIP.

Phase 8...all training should skills under pressure based.....do drills delivering under pressure to moving targets at various distances - miss and its 30 push ups....(if you are stationary...you don't get it but you do get 30 push ups) , (make them sleep with a Footy), a lot of aerobic and core strength training plus a program to muscle up the stick insects that make up 80% of the list to put on at least 2 kgs of muscle especially up top (tackling...get a rugby tacking coach). Guys like Gumby need a total body transformation to be able to stand his ground, and push off opponents....even Hurley needs toning and so does Hooks.....WIP

Phase 9...totally think outside the square. Lloydy is what 31? B. Hall is 34 and just licked 74 goals so far this year. If you leave Lloydy in the square or 30m arc out why not? His body will be OK. His nemisis is gone. Think outside the square...get 2 years out of him?....WIP

Phase 10....further thinking outside the square....eg try Tayte in the mids....he is 191/94..Watto 190/93...(even poofy Goddard is bigger than both of them).....has Footy smarts, quick and is a lovely kick both sides. Why not try it? Gives Watto a hand in tight...Got shitloads of talls......WIP

Please feel free to add.

Not horrible ideas. The Tayte idea is ok, he does move well but I would rather him at FB than Hooker. Hooker give it his all and is ok, but more confident with Tayte than Cale. Though Cale matches up better on some players compared to Tayte.

- No point getting Lloyd back unless he is the goal-kicking coach. Move forward, not backwards. The problem we had was that we had no one in the forward line at all, hence why our midfielders came to a halt when running down the wing.

- I think most of our skills training was done at the end of the session, when the players were tired which I thought was a good thing. The pressure based training is still done, but how do you replicate match pressure at training?

- Evans and Robson have said they will be putting more money into the football department, so I can only assume this means new facilities and more personell.

Interesting PS coming up I reckon.

[CSol]

Im surprised people who obviously go to games frequently and can see the dodgee game plan knights had in place unfolding cant see that that was virtually the be all and end all of our problems.

Whether the players were ignoring orders, or knights game them orders to do so, there were consistent issues with our structure.

1. Backs were pushing up the ground and we were having goals scored against us by teams kicking over the top and opposition running on. This happened so many times this year its ridiculous.
2. Forwards were pushing back. This is fine to an extent, but when someone like neagle who's only real strength at this stage is lead up marking and he is clearly very weak at every other aspect of the game, is constantly pushing back leaving our forward line empty, our midfielders gain possession and have no where to kick it. They are then forced to hold it up, backpedal and basically everything you don’t want to be doing. I have said this before, Neagle wont be a champion by any means, but he would give us something if he were given orders to maintain a leading pattern from the goal square out to no further than the 50 mtr arc. If at any stage he is standing still, it must be in the square ready to make a lead out. Wander needlessly around the 50 mtr arc and you get dragged.
3. Selection has been a joke. Confidence is everything when it comes to performance. The selection this year gave no one any confidence at all.
4. Im not convinced with positioning of half the youngsters. Myers is a midfielder, as I believe is Hocking. I don’t see them as viable defenders at all. There are plenty other examples, Neagle I touched on already but they are the most obvious. Ultimately if we cant fit them in to our side in there preferred position, then trade them for players who can play in the positions we need.

Sure there are plenty of other issues, the board, the facilities etc. But the rotting head in this case was the coach and I'm confident if we get the right coach with the right game plan then we will be competitive immediately. A flag might well be years away, with the draft compromised and the limited midfield talent we have on our list and ill accept that. I just want a competitive team that plays with spirit, a team that expects finals every year and achieves it most years, so I can be proud to watch them again.

[robbie67]

Lloydy will take us to our next flag? What will winning a couple more games really do for our development? One of the reasons we got rid of sheedy was for doing exactly that.

Get A grade midfeilder. What an amazing idea! Why havn't we thought of that before?

We need one thing and that is time. Unfortunately that is the one thing we are not willing to invest.

I dont think getting Lloyd back will do anything long term for the club either, but using your rationale we should sack McVeigh, Welsh, Williams, Hille, Fletcher, and probably Watson and Winderlich as well.

Who says we are not willing to invest time? I agree with Gringo, we are at least 5 years away from being a contender, and possibly more with the current draft concessions. Dont be mistaken into believing it was all results orientated which has frustrated almost everyone over the last few years. It was more game style, and blind faith in blokes that were not taking us anywhere. If we had won the same amount of games, and seen general improvement across the list, and a style of football played that could produce that improvment, Knights would still be coaching the club.

[Windy_Hill]

Great stuff Filth. Dont worry about the knockers mate - Remember Ben Lexen used to get teased as well and look what he achieved by thinking outside the square.

I think a complete review of player positions is defintely in order

I dont think Dempsy and Atkinson are defenders - but sling them up on to the wings with a license to run and bounce - they could be dynamic?

Ryder seems to be stagnating on the ball - perhaps he needs a season in a fixed position - maybe back to CHB thus releasing Pears to have a run in the mid-field. Bellchambers showed enough this season to ride shotgun with Hille in the Ruck

Carlisle to full forward (plus add 5 kgs) - could be anything this boy

Welsh and McVeigh to be locked down in the Back Pocket - never to go near the mid-field again

Monfries into the back line - lets be honest, he only plays 4 decent games a year. But he does actually have pretty good defensive capabilities.

Get Willo fit and help develop a three pronged attack with Carlisile and Gumby being the marking targets

[gringo]

Great stuff Filth. Dont worry about the knockers mate - Remember Ben Lexen used to get teased as well and look what he achieved by thinking outside the square.

I think a complete review of player positions is defintely in order

I dont think Dempsy and Atkinson are defenders - but sling them up on to the wings with a license to run and bounce - they could be dynamic?

Ryder seems to be stagnating on the ball - perhaps he needs a season in a fixed position - maybe back to CHB thus releasing Pears to have a run in the mid-field. Bellchambers showed enough this season to ride shotgun with Hille in the Ruck

Carlisle to full forward (plus add 5 kgs) - could be anything this boy

Welsh and McVeigh to be locked down in the Back Pocket - never to go near the mid-field again

Monfries into the back line - lets be honest, he only plays 4 decent games a year. But he does actually have pretty good defensive capabilities.

Get Willo fit and help develop a three pronged attack with Carlisile and Gumby being the marking targets

You serious?

[Windy_Hill]

Great stuff Filth. Dont worry about the knockers mate - Remember Ben Lexen used to get teased as well and look what he achieved by thinking outside the square.

I think a complete review of player positions is defintely in order

I dont think Dempsy and Atkinson are defenders - but sling them up on to the wings with a license to run and bounce - they could be dynamic?

Ryder seems to be stagnating on the ball - perhaps he needs a season in a fixed position - maybe back to CHB thus releasing Pears to have a run in the mid-field. Bellchambers showed enough this season to ride shotgun with Hille in the Ruck

Carlisle to full forward (plus add 5 kgs) - could be anything this boy

Welsh and McVeigh to be locked down in the Back Pocket - never to go near the mid-field again

Monfries into the back line - lets be honest, he only plays 4 decent games a year. But he does actually have pretty good defensive capabilities.

Get Willo fit and help develop a three pronged attack with Carlisile and Gumby being the marking targets

You serious?

You kidding, I am just seeing whether you'd bite - Bingo!!

[little_ripper]

I wrote a big reply to this, and then the internet farked up and i lost it all.

but in summary - good summary filth, I like a lot of it.

few points though.

1. Bulking up the players should be phase one.
2. Lloydy is not the answer for Essendon. We are in the sort of phase which requires finding the next Matty lloyd(ie say finding our own current jack reiwoldt). we aint winning a flag for a few years.
3. Lets restore the agro at Essendon. Sheedy in his hey day was a hard, uncomprimising agro player, and he brought that to his coaching. Same with Lethal, Same I reckon will be said of Dimma, Harvey, Brad Scott and a few other young coaches who i think have it. We need guys of this sort of pedigree coaching at essendon.
4. Brett Kirk - names been mentioned a bit. I reckon he could help add some MENTAL DISCIPLINE to some of our young blokes.

I think nearly every essendon fan can agree, when the 'good/real' essendon turn up, they can produce great footy which can trouble just about any side in the comp. We just need to find the support personell who can extract those performances regularly out of the playing group.

[Sismis]

Lloydy will take us to our next flag? What will winning a couple more games really do for our development? One of the reasons we got rid of sheedy was for doing exactly that.

Get A grade midfeilder. What an amazing idea! Why havn't we thought of that before?

We need one thing and that is time. Unfortunately that is the one thing we are not willing to invest.

Sarcasm equals the lowest form of wit....

You clearly do not have the intelligence to have the slightest idea of the concept of brainstorming and the role it plays in business and all walks of life.

Brainstorming also tends to be new ideas.

Knowing a concept has little to do with intelligence.

[nomolos]

I lold more at the Tayte in the mids call.

He is nowhere near mobile enough for it.

Thats what Myers is there for. Myers being 190/90.

[j-mac31]

Lock Gumbelton and Carlisle in the weights room with Marigliani (he looks like he knows what he's doing in there).

[j-mac31]

LOL at Pears into the middle.

The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" used to get thrown around a lot on old Bombertalk (where has it gone???) but this would be robbing Jesus to pay Judas.

He is going to (sorry Robbie, likely to) be a gun full back. Leave him there.

Also this:

Thats what Myers is there for. Myers being 190/90.

[84859300]

Phase 9...totally think outside the square. Lloydy is what 31? B. Hall is 34 and just licked 74 goals so far this year. If you leave Lloydy in the square or 30m arc out why not? His body will be OK. His nemisis is gone. Think outside the square...get 2 years out of him?....WIP.

Early in the year, when we had some success and could kick a winning score, I felt that much of the pressure up forward was added when we had a resting ruckman playing from the square.

I wonder if Hille/Ryder are our answers at FF and that we should be looking at another established ruck to do the dog work?

[Gyoza]

I despair at my country if this an example of what happens in times of adversity in any situation.

Imagine the start of the GFC in retail, They would be shitting themselves.....how are we going to keep up sales in a looming Depression like recession? Do you think senior/middle management all sat on their arse in their offices wringing their hands in anticipated disaster? Can you imagine Gerry Harvey doing that? No. They would be having be frantic strategy/brainstorming meetings to avoid a drastic drop in sales which = drop in profits which = lay offs. For whatever reason YOU believe in it didn't happen here, thank god (or Kevin, Wayne, Glenn & Ken).

But here we have the EFC enduring its most humiliating period in our history according to my Dad since the 1930's (forget the 70's) and we get half here in this topic taking to it and offering agreement and disagreement but other suggestions.

Sadly as usual in this country, the other half cherry picking that which to knock and not offering any useful suggestions.

Depressingly as usual.

Over the last two years I would be more than happy to put you forward as one of if not the most logical posters here with plenty of well thought out ideas. This particular post and a few like it made less sense than a CAPS FILLED rant about WA football teams sorry.

Moving back on to the original point, I think a lot of the steps you listed must happen and I would hope they are on a checklist at the club right now. Some of them seem obvious, but it looks to have been the obvious things Essendon has not done well in the last few years.

The idea of Lloyd specifically coming back just can't happen for many reasons. Having said that, I think there is an ongoing debate worth having about how you develop young kids successfully. Does making more space for kids to "get games into them" work or is it better to slowly bring them in amongst experience like they are doing at Geelong at the moment? I think the mix of experience is a far better route to go down. Yet we have almost none....so do we look to bring in some of that experience for the next year or two? The obvious downside being that this kills the opportunity to bring in more young draft picks and could hurt again down the track (especially if we get the following draft wrong),

No problem with a bit of experimentation re players and positions, but really feel it would need to be done in a logical and clear way so that the players know what is going on. Would rather see things very very settled for the first 5-6 weeks.
Fletcher playing forward is something I would like tried once we have Pears, Hurley and Hooker all fit.

[robrulz5]

Well done filthy. Some people on here are just ridiculous, this forum would be damn boring if no one posted good threads like this.


I like the idea of giving the medical and fitness staff some more support. Perhaps Essendon could be the first club in the AFL to have Sports Therapists working for them.