Had we got Cloke T, we would be a Top 4 Side

[Windy_Hill]

As you all know, Hird went out of his way to try to lure Travis Cloke to Essendon. Its clear from our game plan that Hirdy always envisaged long balls to a contested mark. Cloke is clearly the best contested marking forward in the league at the moment and he or a player like him appears to be the missing link in our game plan. Ryder and Hille are not grabbing contested marks. Makes me think whether Gumby, despite the stop start progress in his career, could ultimately be the man. He is a great mark of the pill and I reckon would fit nicely into the current long ball game plan



Any thoughts?

[BenDoolan]

Never liked him. Reckon he's a shit truck a la Cameron Mooney. Sad thing is, both of them are premiership players. Cloke nearly f***** their chances of winning last year. If only.

[robrulz5]

He is a good mark no doubt but he can't kick for shit.

[Windy_Hill]

Never liked him. Reckon he's a shit truck a la Cameron Mooney. Sad thing is, both of them are premiership players. Cloke nearly f***** their chances of winning last year. If only.

Seriously, I reckon he is a terrific playre who only seems to be getting better - however, I agree with you on Mooney.

Was watching the first half of the Saints game tonight and Cloke was a collosus for the pies. Seems to have improved his goal kicking a as well. If we had someone who could have taken a few contested marks against Melbourne/Richmond, I reckon the outcome could have been different

[robrulz5]

If we had someone who could have taken a few contested marks against Melbourne/Richmond, I reckon the outcome could have been different

Hurley will be that player. He will eventually be better than Cloke as well.

[bomberdonnie]

He is a shit bloke and as dumb as an ox tail

Dont care how good a mark he is he can f*** off

[Jazz_84]

yep i agree with you on Gumby being that statue in the 50 but the problem will be if they make him push up the ground..... i can tell you right now that would never work

Gumby to stand in the square with Hurley + Crameri running around taking opponents with them leaving 1 on 1 for Gumby, wont work all the time but at least that gives 3 genuine options to look for

[BERT]

If Cloke could kick he would be rated as one of the best forwards in the last 20 years at careers end. He is a gun.

[Gnome Chomsky]

As you all know, Hird went out of his way to try to lure Travis Cloke to Essendon. Its clear from our game plan that Hirdy always envisaged long balls to a contested mark. Cloke is clearly the best contested marking forward in the league at the moment and he or a player like him appears to be the missing link in our game plan. Ryder and Hille are not grabbing contested marks. Makes me think whether Gumby, despite the stop start progress in his career, could ultimately be the man. He is a great mark of the pill and I reckon would fit nicely into the current long ball game plan



Any thoughts?

Disagree. One thing we have is good KPP. We have been beaten by Richmond and Melbourne due to their superior midfields.

Our best midfielder over the last 2 weeks has been Lonegan and as good as he is at winning the ball he needs the support of quality ball users. With Jobe, Dempsey and Winderlich out of the side we have dropped off significantly in our efficiency in moving the ball from the contest to our forwards. This has been compounded by the poor efforts from Ryder, who is out of sorts and should make way for Hurley this week, IMO.

So do we need Cloke, no. We would benifit from another A grade midfielder however we will probably have to wait and hope Heppell and Melksham become genuine A graders and that Jobe is still producing the goods into his late 20's and early 30's. Only then will we have the midfield depth to be a top 4 side.

[tonysoprano]

As you all know, Hird went out of his way to try to lure Travis Cloke to Essendon. Its clear from our game plan that Hirdy always envisaged long balls to a contested mark. Cloke is clearly the best contested marking forward in the league at the moment and he or a player like him appears to be the missing link in our game plan. Ryder and Hille are not grabbing contested marks. Makes me think whether Gumby, despite the stop start progress in his career, could ultimately be the man. He is a great mark of the pill and I reckon would fit nicely into the current long ball game plan



Any thoughts?

Disagree. One thing we have is good KPP. We have been beaten by Richmond and Melbourne due to their superior midfields.

Our best midfielder over the last 2 weeks has been Lonegan and as good as he is at winning the ball he needs the support of quality ball users. With Jobe, Dempsey and Winderlich out of the side we have dropped off significantly in our efficiency in moving the ball from the contest to our forwards. This has been compounded by the poor efforts from Ryder, who is out of sorts and should make way for Hurley this week, IMO.

So do we need Cloke, no. We would benifit from another A grade midfielder however we will probably have to wait and hope Heppell and Melksham become genuine A graders and that Jobe is still producing the goods into his late 20's and early 30's. Only then will we have the midfield depth to be a top 4 side.

We smashed Richmond at clearances 51 to 28 or something, and had a dozen more inside 50s against both teams. There is no way they have superior midfields. Our forward press clogs our front 50 so even if we get the ball - there is no space to lead, no clear shot at goal. When we turn it over its a foot race to the other end - and we invariably lose. (Melbourne kicked 6 of their 15 from the f****** goal square!)

As for Cloke - he is 5 times the forward Paddy Ryder is.

[BenDoolan]

If Cloke could kick he would be rated as one of the best forwards in the last 20 years at careers end. He is a gun.

He can't be a gun if he can't kick.

And even if he did, I doubt he'd be anywhere near Wayne Carey, Jonathon Brown, Buddy Franklin, Nick Reiwoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Jack Reiwoldt, Barry Hall, Scott Lucas or Matthew Lloyd by careers end.

[hop]

NO!!!!!

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Everytime a Cloke is mentioned I think of those immortal words of Frank Wilson in 'The Club' - "...and he boofed his legless sister".

Tony S. is probably right with his comparsion with Ryder - but that says more about where Ryder is ATM than the merits of Cloke.

If it's the ladder you're talking about - I really can't see it - as we have an abundance of KPP's who hopefully (he says with everything crossed) at least one will develop into the role Cloke now plays for Collingwood. Hurley looks the most likely.

If it's kiddy fiddling, or beastiality or colouring outside the lines - then YES - we would be a top 4 team with Cloke!

[Gnome Chomsky]

We smashed Richmond at clearances 51 to 28 or something, and had a dozen more inside 50s against both teams. There is no way they have superior midfields. Our forward press clogs our front 50 so even if we get the ball - there is no space to lead, no clear shot at goal. When we turn it over its a foot race to the other end - and we invariably lose. (Melbourne kicked 6 of their 15 from the f****** goal square!)

As for Cloke - he is 5 times the forward Paddy Ryder is.

Tony... you will note that I talked about moving the ball from the contest to the forwards, not our ability to win a clearance. We were beaten by those teams due to their ability to quickly and effectively move the footy from the contest. We on the other had have lost two of our best ball carriers and our best all round midfielder. No one was complaining about our forwards in the first 6 rounds.

Geelong has been one of the best sides of the last 4 years and I think most would agree that their midfield has been their greatest strength. Also Collingwood has gone from contender to premiers on the back of an improved midfield, namely the development of Swan and Pendlebury and the arrival of Ball and Ball. Shit even Leigh Brown can look like a good forward in their side.

Finally the press is not the issue. THat is what is allowing us to control the ball and get so many inside 50's becasuse we "lock it up". The problem is that we havent been moving the ball quickly enough (due to a lack of damaging outside mids). When we get it forward all our smalls are not working hard enough to get to the contest, note other top 4 sides have a spread of goal kickers note just one big ape doing all the work. Against Melbourne it was as if Jetta was our only small forward, players like Monfries were to busy making pissy little leads and not working back to provide a contest on the ground. On a number of occasions Jetta was first to the ball however had no support and had to make a rushed snap or got tackled.

To answer the question initially raised, would we be top 4 in we had Cloke? IMO no.

[hop]

If Cloke could kick he would be rated as one of the best forwards in the last 20 years at careers end. He is a gun.

He can't be a gun if he can't kick.

And even if he did, I doubt he'd be anywhere near Wayne Carey, Jonathon Brown, Buddy Franklin, Nick Reiwoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Jack Reiwoldt, Barry Hall, Scott Lucas or Matthew Lloyd by careers end.

Matthew Richardson, Chris Grant, Warren Tredrea

[Windy_Hill]

If Cloke could kick he would be rated as one of the best forwards in the last 20 years at careers end. He is a gun.

He can't be a gun if he can't kick.

And even if he did, I doubt he'd be anywhere near Wayne Carey, Jonathon Brown, Buddy Franklin, Nick Reiwoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Jack Reiwoldt, Barry Hall, Scott Lucas or Matthew Lloyd by careers end.

Matthew Richardson, Chris Grant, Warren Tredrea

Any thoughts on why Hird rates him so highly then?

[hop]

Because he is a very good, strong, lead-up mark and in a one on one in the air he is difficult to beat - ala Lucas and Lloyd.

Is he a role model? An exemplary person? A leader? A consistently good goal scorer? As good as the other dozen forwards mention on this thread?

IMO - NO!

[BenDoolan]

Any thoughts on why Hird rates him so highly then?

Probably the same reason why he thought Tom Hislop would play 200 games for us?

Yes, even James Hird can be wrong at times.

[BenDoolan]

If Cloke could kick he would be rated as one of the best forwards in the last 20 years at careers end. He is a gun.

He can't be a gun if he can't kick.

And even if he did, I doubt he'd be anywhere near Wayne Carey, Jonathon Brown, Buddy Franklin, Nick Reiwoldt, Matthew Pavlich, Jack Reiwoldt, Barry Hall, Scott Lucas or Matthew Lloyd by careers end.

Matthew Richardson, Chris Grant, Warren Tredrea

Wow....I can't believe I missed those guys!

Cloke is even further down the rung than I thought...

[ealesy]

Sorry but anyone who thinks Gumby is going to solve our contested marking woes and should be played in the goalsquare either are f****** clueless, delusional or just f****** kidding themslves.

With all his injuries he got the body of 2nd year player. Do you forget that he was consistently outbodied and outmarked in marking contest by back pocket and half back flankers last year. He was thrown around like a f****** rag doll.

Couple that with his atheletic capabilites and stamina and his f****** pathetic goalkicking, it would be far more use to have him leading up out of the forward 50 providing the marking link between the midfield and forward line which we are clearly lacking at the moment.

Hurley is the bloke you want coming out of the goalsquare. He's the bloke with the size, body strength and footy smarts to take contested marks as well as get out on the lead and take them out in front.

[Jazz_84]

or just hopeful he can string a few games together and start to gain some confidence and assert himself on the game, how about that take on it?