EFC possibly dumped in the shit

[jimmyc1985]

Surprised it's Sam Lane rather than Caroline Wilson blowing smoke up Knight's arse, given that seems to have been the reciprocal arrangement for Knight leaking like a sieve to Wilson for years.

Her heart's probably in the right place and she deserves big plaudits for sponsoring Long in 1989 when indigenous players were pretty unfashionable, but she's full of shit. BD's right, we've drafted plenty of indigenous players over the years who had very obvious deficiencies as players and were nowhere near 'sensational' - there's still a few of them on our list now. My guess is that she pushed hard for Cyril Rioli in 2007, we went with Myers, and she's bitter about it...perhaps fair enough, but let's not make rubbish up like "you have to be a sensational indigenous player to get a look at the Bombers", that's just horse shit.

[Gimps]

Having met old Bev a few times around the traps I can tell you there is no more deluded former board member then she is.

I met her and Fat Ray at the same time a few years back.. I thought I was in an asylum rather than Windy Hill.

[Ossie]

I understand what you are saying above. You viewpoint has merit, but if you can't see that there is higher risk when taking on Aboriginal players, I think you may need to open your eyes a bit wider..

This is true. Same applies to South American footballers being recruited into the Premier League. Pound for pound, far more problematic than western, European players. Is the risk worth it? Ask Roberto Mancini .

But for every dickhead like Suarez or Tevez, there are guys like Antonio Valencia, Nolberto Solano, or Wilson Palacios, who are wonderful young men whose character far outshines plenty of their English counterparts (see Rooney, Wayne or Barton, Joey).

I just think it's very narrow minded to say they're harder to deal with when there are plenty of examples of people from a more privileged background who are equally (or more) idiotic.
There MAY be issues, of course, but there may be issues with white footballers too.
I just think if the background work is done on each player, and their character etc assessed, that should be the only thing that comes into it. I don't think any recruiters should be assessing players with any preconceptions about what the kid might be like - and that's what Matt Rendell was implying.

[Gimps]

We're not saying that we should stay away from these kids. All players should be looked at no matter where they come from. What we are saying is that when looking at the percentages, Aboriginal players tend to be more trouble than "white" players.

[Ossie]

We're not saying that we should stay away from these kids. All players should be looked at no matter where they come from. What we are saying is that when looking at the percentages, Aboriginal players tend to be more trouble than "white" players.

Yeah I know what you mean, but I think that there's more attention put on aboriginal kids when they muck up, because they're aboriginal.
I know you could never compile a statistic on this, but per capita I would be very unsure that what you're saying above is true. Look at our guys, Dempsey, Davey, Ryder, Jetta, not a trouble in the world. But the golden boy Hurley's been in trouble, even though nothing's made of his background. Reimers has been a headache, Jay Neagle's work ethic was zero, Hibberd got himself into a fight, in our club at least the indigenous guys are arguably less trouble.

[j-mac31]

We're not saying that we should stay away from these kids. All players should be looked at no matter where they come from. What we are saying is that when looking at the percentages, Aboriginal players tend to be more trouble than "white" players.

Yeah I know what you mean, but I think that there's more attention put on aboriginal kids when they muck up, because they're aboriginal.
I know you could never compile a statistic on this, but per capita I would be very unsure that what you're saying above is true. Look at our guys, Dempsey, Davey, Ryder, Jetta, not a trouble in the world. But the golden boy Hurley's been in trouble, even though nothing's made of his background. Reimers has been a headache, Jay Neagle's work ethic was zero, Hibberd got himself into a fight, in our club at least the indigenous guys are arguably less trouble.

Do 'Aboriginal players tend to be more trouble than "white" players' though? I think Ossie's got it - they get far more attention on them when they f*** up. Or if they don't give a shit enough.

[Gimps]

Look at the number of Aboriginal vs "White" players. It's f*** all vs heaps.

I understand that they may get more attention. But think of the trouble/ incidents over the years vs the number of participants. The Aboriginal players win.

Just to name a few... I'm sure I could find a lot more if I did a bit of digging.

Jimmy Krakouer
Andrew Krakouer
Troy Taylor
Andrew Lovett
Matthew Stokes (I know a lot more about him than what happened last year)
Rhan Hooper
Michael Johnson
Liam Jurrah

Again, not being racist.
Ashley Sampi

[watsongun]

Look at the number of Aboriginal vs "White" players. It's f*** all vs heaps.

I understand that they may get more attention. But think of the trouble/ incidents over the years vs the number of participants. The Aboriginal players win.

Just to name a few... I'm sure I could find a lot more if I did a bit of digging.

Jimmy Krakouer
Andrew Krakouer
Troy Taylor
Andrew Lovett
Matthew Stokes (I know a lot more about him than what happened last year)
Rhan Hooper
Michael Johnson
Liam Jurrah

Again, not being racist.
Ashley Sampi

Can you tell us more about Stokes mate????

[watsongun]

Look at the number of Aboriginal vs "White" players. It's f*** all vs heaps.

I understand that they may get more attention. But think of the trouble/ incidents over the years vs the number of participants. The Aboriginal players win.

Just to name a few... I'm sure I could find a lot more if I did a bit of digging.

Jimmy Krakouer
Andrew Krakouer
Troy Taylor
Andrew Lovett
Matthew Stokes (I know a lot more about him than what happened last year)
Rhan Hooper
Michael Johnson
Liam Jurrah

Again, not being racist.
Ashley Sampi

[gringo]

Look at the number of Aboriginal vs "White" players. It's f*** all vs heaps.

I understand that they may get more attention. But think of the trouble/ incidents over the years vs the number of participants. The Aboriginal players win.

Just to name a few... I'm sure I could find a lot more if I did a bit of digging.

Jimmy Krakouer
Andrew Krakouer
Troy Taylor
Andrew Lovett
Matthew Stokes (I know a lot more about him than what happened last year)
Rhan Hooper
Michael Johnson
Liam Jurrah

Again, not being racist.
Ashley Sampi

What a stunning piece of nonsense this is. It's the sort of right-wing zealot comment you see published in the Herald Sun and turned into fact by the Liberal Party. You could go on for days listing anglo players who have fallen foul of the law. Lets start with Collingwood's current playing group:

1. Dane Swan (assault)
2. Alan Didak (too numerous to mention)
3. Sharod Wellingham (lost his licence for drink driving)
4. Heath Shaw (lied to cover up Didak's shenanigans and betting on games)
5. Ben Johnson (assault)
6. Chris Tarrant (assault)
7. Travis Cloke (pegging a glass bottle out of a car on Chapel St and driving on a disqualified licence)
8. Dayne Beams (alleged sexual assault)
9. John McCarthy (alleged sexual assault)

That's a current list at one club...

[Gimps]

If you actually took the time to read what I said, you would understand that I am talking number of players vs "trouble". There is a higher density when it comes to the Aboriginal players. I'm not saying "white" players are angels - I've known a few in my time, that includes a couple of shockers.

And I vote Labour..

[gringo]

If you actually took the time to read what I said, you would understand that I am talking number of players vs "trouble". There is a higher density when it comes to the Aboriginal players. I'm not saying "white" players are angels - I've known a few in my time, that includes a couple of shockers.

And I vote Labour..

This is what you said:

Look at the number of Aboriginal vs "White" players. It's f*** all vs heaps.

I understand that they may get more attention. But think of the trouble/ incidents over the years vs the number of participants. The Aboriginal players win.

This is what I said:

What a stunning piece of nonsense this is. It's the sort of right-wing zealot comment you see published in the Herald Sun and turned into fact by the Liberal Party. You could go on for days listing anglo players who have fallen foul of the law. Lets start with Collingwood's current playing group:

1. Dane Swan (assault)
2. Alan Didak (too numerous to mention)
3. Sharod Wellingham (lost his licence for drink driving)
4. Heath Shaw (lied to cover up Didak's shenanigans and betting on games)
5. Ben Johnson (assault)
6. Chris Tarrant (assault)
7. Travis Cloke (pegging a glass bottle out of a car on Chapel St and driving on a disqualified licence)
8. Dayne Beams (alleged sexual assault)
9. John McCarthy (alleged sexual assault)

That's a current list at one club...

So to suggest that:

(a) Aboriginal players cause more trouble or fall foul of the law more requently than anglo players; or that

(b) I didn't read your post;

are both whimsical fantasties which bear no characteristics of reality. I have listed 9 of Collingwood's current list (there are probably more) who have engaged in some funny business. That's almost a 1/4 of their playing list and not one is an Aboriginal!

Before making such grandiose and racially-tinged claims, it might be worth engaging your brain and giving the matter some thought rather than picking up a copy of the Herald Sun and quoting verbatim.

[Gimps]

Oh my darling Gringo..

For starters, I have not read ANYTHING relating to this story in the Herald Sun, or any other newspaper.

Secondly, if you took the time to read through all of the posts, you would see that when I used the word "trouble" - I did not merely suggest that it was all about criminal activity. It also included the fact that MANY Aboriginal players find it difficult to live the lifestyle, with many of them giving the game away and heading home.

Let's consider what I mentioned above in relation to the amount of indigenous players vs "trouble". There are 127 past indigenous players, and let's say 30 current players. Rounded up, that equates to approximately 160 players. Compare that to roughly 500 players that would make up the rest of the playing group (each year) - take out a few minority groups - you'd assume approximately 450 players that have grown up in "anglo" society.

Based on weight of numbers, the amount of "trouble" that has been caused by indigenous players would outweigh the "trouble" caused by "anglo" players.

I'm not trying to pot the indigenous players, and in no way am I suggesting we steer clear of them come draft time.

So before you label me a biggoted simpleton, you may want to consult your wife - she is the decision maker in your family, she may advise against making such claims. And if you adhere to her wishes and be a good boy, she may allow you to retrieve your balls from her purse.

[gringo]

Secondly, if you took the time to read through all of the posts, you would see that when I used the word "trouble" - I did not merely suggest that it was all about criminal activity. It also included the fact that MANY Aboriginal players find it difficult to live the lifestyle, with many of them giving the game away and heading home.

Many non-indigneous players find it difficult to live the lifestlye, with many of them giving the game away and heading home. Cayden Beetham was drafted at number 3, got plenty of the ball when playing for St Kilda, but couln't hack the lifestyle. You can also throw in a little known bloke called Brendan Fevola into that list, Angwin, Norman, Nathan Ablett...I'm yet to see any evidence (other than the possible selective reporting by the media) that statistically, Aboriginal players are more likely to be inflicted by this problem.

Let's consider what I mentioned above in relation to the amount of indigenous players vs "trouble". There are 127 past indigenous players, and let's say 30 current players. Rounded up, that equates to approximately 160 players. Compare that to roughly 500 players that would make up the rest of the playing group (each year) - take out a few minority groups - you'd assume approximately 450 players that have grown up in "anglo" society.

Based on weight of numbers, the amount of "trouble" that has been caused by indigenous players would outweigh the "trouble" caused by "anglo" players.

What are you basing this on? The biaised reporting ofthe media? I've pointed out 9 players on the Collingwood list that have been involved in "trouble" and not one of them are Aboriginal. It seems to back up my point that when an Aboriginal player does stuff up (you can probably extent that to a non-white player following the circus that surrouned Majak Daw) the media goes beserk and runs the story front and centre for days on end.

[Gimps]

Secondly, if you took the time to read through all of the posts, you would see that when I used the word "trouble" - I did not merely suggest that it was all about criminal activity. It also included the fact that MANY Aboriginal players find it difficult to live the lifestyle, with many of them giving the game away and heading home.

Many non-indigneous players find it difficult to live the lifestlye, with many of them giving the game away and heading home. Cayden Beetham was drafted at number 3, got plenty of the ball when playing for St Kilda, but couln't hack the lifestyle. You can also throw in a little known bloke called Brendan Fevola into that list, Angwin, Norman, Nathan Ablett...I'm yet to see any evidence (other than the possible selective reporting by the media) that statistically, Aboriginal players are more likely to be inflicted by this problem.

Let's consider what I mentioned above in relation to the amount of indigenous players vs "trouble". There are 127 past indigenous players, and let's say 30 current players. Rounded up, that equates to approximately 160 players. Compare that to roughly 500 players that would make up the rest of the playing group (each year) - take out a few minority groups - you'd assume approximately 450 players that have grown up in "anglo" society.

Based on weight of numbers, the amount of "trouble" that has been caused by indigenous players would outweigh the "trouble" caused by "anglo" players.

What are you basing this on? The biaised reporting ofthe media? I've pointed out 9 players on the Collingwood list that have been involved in "trouble" and not one of them are Aboriginal. It seems to back up my point that when an Aboriginal player does stuff up (you can probably extent that to a non-white player following the circus that surrouned Majak Daw) the media goes beserk and runs the story front and centre for days on end.

You've listed 9 non-Aboriginal players out of a possible 600 currently on AFL lists. Big F****** deal. All that shows is that there is a problem on both sides of the fence, as I have acknowledged upteen F****** times. Again, for the thooooooooooooooooooooousandth time - it's Number of Players vs "trouble".

If you don't have a grasp on the fundamentals of mathematics, let me know, I'll give you mates rates for lessons.