Gaps in the playing list

[s'dreams]

Those folk in the forum would have got sick of me banging on and on about the team being short a big bustling FF ... and I still think that we are ... but

Some of the comments in here and in the wider medja indicate that we are 1-2 quality midfielders short of a top 4 squad ... while this has been glossed over by the game plan/tactics/soft draw and enthusiasm until round 9 .... at the end of last year it was widely agreed that:

We had
* one A grade midfielder (Watson) though he had issues with his body/injury
* one B grade midfielder (Stanton) though he had issues with confidence
* one decent tagger (Hocking) though he had issues with his discipline
* two or three youngsters about to step up - but inconsistent, raw and underweight (Zacha, Hepp, Howlett)
* two or three youngsters/fringe players who have potential but we are unsure of (Myers/Colyer/Melksham)
* Two or three players who could be best 22 but have been cruelled by injury (Prismall, Winders, Lonergan)

Not much has changed except ... Watson (touch wood) has been injury free, Stanton has overcome the mental yips and played good except he seems at the moment to be a one trick pony, hocking has gone backwards, Hepp is suprising with his form, and Lonegran is doing a job.

Given the analysis of late - it would seem that we need another A and B grade midfielder ... (or another gameplan to stop the close tagging of Stanton and double teaming of crameri)...

Is this correct?

[Gimps]

I don't think our midfield is too bad at the moment. I think the biggest problem over the past couple of weeks is our inability to carry the ball close enough to the forward 50 to pinpoint a short-ish pass to our forwards. As we saw last week, we extracted the ball enough, but we were bombing it in from 70-80-90 metres out. The midfielders/ half forwards need to carry the ball that little bit further, or drop the eyes for a shorter pass. Kicking it 50m in the air isn't going to help our forwards. Putting it out in front of them (and to advantage) will fix a lot of problems. I recall 4 or 5 times on Saturday night where the ball should have been kicked to the left or right of the contest, but went the other way.

The other problem we've had in the last two weeks is the fact that opposition players (2-3 at a time) are dropping back into our forward line to block up the space where our forwards would normally lead. They're taking easy marks, or providing a 2-3 on 1. And with these additional players, they are getting the ball out of our forward line way too easily. We need to push players forward and at least create a contest, or blocking for our forwards. Players up the ground are working hard to get it in there, the opposition are rebounding with ease. If the opposition start a player loose in their backline, I'd prefer we send someone forward and man them up. We have to have faith in our backline, and our midfield to get the ball forward.

[Windy_Hill]

Yes, we need another A grade mid-fielder.

Its interesting to see how we have dropped off with Stanton being shut down in the last 2 games. There is no one there to step up and take on his role as a mid field link man.

Hocking hasnt gone backwards but by virtue of the role he plays every week, we are not seeing the best of his abilities

Zaka and Hepp are coming along just fine

Melksham is average at best - he does not seem to have a weapon in his armoury (Not overly quick, average disposal, average decision making, not a strong mark)

In my mind, we need to be aggressive in nailing an A Grade Mid in this year's draft - Travis Boak, for example.

[robbie67]

It depends what your ambitions are. If you want to be a genuine year in, year out contender, we are probably two mid-fielders short. Now if Winderlich was to get on the park, and play at his best, that would take care of one of them.

We probably have a good enough mid-field at the moment to be 5-8 team, that can sneak or fluke a better outcome with a good run of injuries.

My major concern long term is another key backman, and probably another shut down small backman that is a good kick.

I honestly dont think we need another big forward. The resting ruckman almost HAS to play at FF these days, because the rotations are required to run games out. Hurley, Crameri, and Ryder/Bellchambers/Hille is tall enough for anyones needs. These guys just need some form/delivery/confidence.

[Windy_Hill]

It depends what your ambitions are. If you want to be a genuine year in, year out contender, we are probably two mid-fielders short. Now if Winderlich was to get on the park, and play at his best, that would take care of one of them.

We probably have a good enough mid-field at the moment to be 5-8 team, that can sneak or fluke a better outcome with a good run of injuries.

My major concern long term is another key backman, and probably another shut down small backman that is a good kick.

I honestly dont think we need another big forward. The resting ruckman almost HAS to play at FF these days, because the rotations are required to run games out. Hurley, Crameri, and Ryder/Bellchambers/Hille is tall enough for anyones needs. These guys just need some form/delivery/confidence.

Does Hibberd fill the small backman role or have you already included him?

[robbie67]

It depends what your ambitions are. If you want to be a genuine year in, year out contender, we are probably two mid-fielders short. Now if Winderlich was to get on the park, and play at his best, that would take care of one of them.

We probably have a good enough mid-field at the moment to be 5-8 team, that can sneak or fluke a better outcome with a good run of injuries.

My major concern long term is another key backman, and probably another shut down small backman that is a good kick.

I honestly dont think we need another big forward. The resting ruckman almost HAS to play at FF these days, because the rotations are required to run games out. Hurley, Crameri, and Ryder/Bellchambers/Hille is tall enough for anyones needs. These guys just need some form/delivery/confidence.

Does Hibberd fill the small backman role or have you already included him?

I'm including Hibberd, and also making allowances for the development of Heppell in to a mid-fielder. If Dempsey was just a bit cleaner with his disposal/decision making the guy would be an A-grader, and his stints in the middle could really be damaging. It may click for him eventually.

[little_ripper]

With a fit and full playing list, I do not think we have any serious outstanding immediate needs.
We have winners on every line with a solid spine.

Zaharakis is a huge loss and it is difficult to cover your first line mids regardless. Ask Carlton.

I am sure the club wants too and is trying to recruit some very good young midfielders, as in the next few years, guys like Watson and Stanton will not get any better.(I think they are both about peaking now). Which is why we took Kavanagh with our first pick last year, and which is why I think they will try and trade this year for one.(simply because GWS and GC have sucked up so much talent) and because we will take one of the best talls in the land in Daniher via F/S with probably our first round draft pick.

The dream would be to add an 18 yr old the calibre of Caddy to our list to develop alongside Kavanagh and perhaps one other solid midfielder in his early/mid 20s. We might not need to if Prismall and Winderlich return.

Thats the vibe I get anyway from my observations. perhaps the club feels it has these type of guys on the list already in the form of our rookies

[F111]

I think it's a loooooonnnngg bow to expect/hope for Prismall and Licha to be our extra A grade mid. It'd be great if they were, but I doubt it'll happen. Of the two if they remained uninjured, I'd have more confidence in Licha achieving it as his pace gives him an edge. Prismall is slow and his disposal isn't what it should be. He seems to find space though.

Kavanagh was recently described as looking like a Judd in the way he moves, just not quite enough of it yet. Maybe in 2014, which might be when we really press for top two...

A team can't have too many A grade mids. I think our future there is Myers & Hocking to help out Stants and Watson. Zaharakis is a B+ at the moment, but improved consistency will see him rise. Howlett and Lonergan are grunt players, both a tad too short, and a tad too slow for A grade. They are must have types though. Everyone needs them.

Heppell is an interesting one. He's more a Gibbs size, but looks like a Pendlebury type. I know which type I'd prefer, but he's a tad small for that too. Once again, what he is in 2014 will be very important.

Young Daniher is also a 2014-5 great hope and next year will hopefully see him settle in to the regimen and accelerate well after that.

Gone will be McVeigh, NLM, maybe Hille, probably Fletcher. Daniher covers Hille, we need Pears to get some confidence back and Carlisle to continue his rise. Hurley remains an option, but maybe a last resort down back. Gumbleton's remains hovering above his scone, but he just might answer many a riddle we have just know. [-o<

[j-mac31]

We need another midfielder or two - which is why we should go after Caddy and/or Boak and/or other GC players who may be wanting to get out (I believe they will have to cut at least 7 players this year to cut their list down to "normal" length). If we can land one or two good midfielders, then any big improvements from Heppell (into an actual A grader, rather than potential) and Kavanagh would be a massive bonus.

[Windy_Hill]

Where do Browne and Ross and Merrett and O'Brien and Steinberg and Hunter fit into the picture. Surely one of them has to come good!

[Western Red]

Not near enough love for Howlett in this thread... Not "A" grade but improving and filling a role.

[swoodley]

Not near enough love for Howlett in this thread... Not "A" grade but improving and filling a role.

Well said Red...I would think that he is getting to the stage where he is one of the first picked each week.

I think the fact that he is more an inside mid, we tend to overlook a lot of the stuff he does because it's not as flashy as Stants or Zaka...but what he does is bloody important.

[Sismis]

Agree on Howlett, the guy is a beast. Causes turnovers and gets the ball moving forward.

I don't think we do have that many gaps. Our midfield is working as well as any in the comp. Gimps hit the nail on the head, we just need to work on our options going in to the forward 50 and of course clean up our execution when we're in there.

We have had a lot of issues converting talent over the last decade, based on the improvemtn we've had in a number of players this year I think this may be behind us.

In previous years we have needed another A grade mid, ATM i think it fits in to the want category. Fletch is going to leave a hole (when he retires in 10 years ) but realistically guys like him are always going to be tough to replace.

[little_ripper]

Hooker carlisle and pears make a pretty good tall three. Plus hurley looks comfortable there too.

I think the clubs prepared pretty well post fletcher.

The worry is def. The midfield group. Need long term replacements for watson found.

[s'dreams]

Given the Brownlow is the "midfielders" medal ... I found it informative to go through the premiership teams mapped against Chasser winners and also members of the premiership team who ended up top 5 (though only to the year of their premiership - eg Black and Brown being top 5 in 2009 were excluded) ... (apologies for the dots ... hard to set a table otherwise)

Year Premier........Brownlow Winners.................................Brownlow top 5
2011 Geelong........Bartel (2007).........................................Selwood (2010)
2010 Collingwood............................................................Swan (2010), Pendelbery (2010)
2009 Geelong........Abblett (2009), Bartel (2007)...................... Abblett (2008)
2008 Hawth..........Crawford (1999)......................................Crawford (2002, 2003), Franklin (2008), Mitchell (2007)
2007 Geelong........Bartel (2007)
2006 West coast....Judd (2004), Cousins (2005)........................Cousins (2001, 2003), Kerr (2005, 2006), Judd (2006)
2005 Sydney..........Goodes (2003, 2006)............................... Williams (2002), Kirk (2004), Hall (2005)
2004 Port Adelaide..Wanganeen (1993).................................. Francou (2001, 2002), Wanganeen (2003), C.Cornes (2004)
2003 Brisbane........Voss (1997) Akermanis (2001), Black (2002).....Voss (2001)
2002 Brisbane........Voss (1997) Akermanis (2001), Black (2002).....Voss (2001)
2001 Brisbane........Voss (1997) Akermanis (2001).....................Voss (2001)

I was suprised that even the "junkyard dog" Port team had a number of top 5 players... and that the oddity was the Geelong side of 2007...

In short - there seems to be a correlation between premiership winners and having multiple Chasser winners and "top 5" Chasser finishers...

We are a long way short of that ... the last time we had a top 5 finisher was Mercuri on 1999 (2nd)

[Jazz_84]

well this year we should have Watson and possibly Stanton in the top 5, still a way to go of course

[DYSON#2]

Dayne Beames out of contract. Pies will feel the squeeze. can we offer him an offer he cant refuse against a maximum pies bid of 300k?

[Jazz_84]

Dayne Beames out of contract. Pies will feel the squeeze. can we offer him an offer he cant refuse against a maximum pies bid of 300k?

id give my left nut to have him at the Bombers! he's Kyle Reimers just a whole lot better (not to say Reimers wont get there)

[j-mac31]

Dayne Beames out of contract. Pies will feel the squeeze. can we offer him an offer he cant refuse against a maximum pies bid of 300k?

id give my left nut to have him at the Bombers! he's Kyle Reimers just a whole lot better (not to say Reimers wont get there)

Sidebottom's also out of contract and would be even better, but I guess he's playing too well for them not to re-sign him.

[Itsmyshow]

Dayne Beames out of contract. Pies will feel the squeeze. can we offer him an offer he cant refuse against a maximum pies bid of 300k?

id give my left nut to have him at the Bombers! he's Kyle Reimers just a whole lot better (not to say Reimers wont get there)

Sidebottom's also out of contract and would be even better, but I guess he's playing too well for them not to re-sign him.

Beams will be a far superior player to Sidebottom by the time the careers of both are over.