I keep reading a lot of posts from people who generally have a sound knowledge of the game, and whose opinons I respect who seem to be very concerned about Hird, Lucas, Fletcher, Lloyd etc being in our best all the time.
I know that we are going to lose Hird at the end of the year, but I cant see the other three going anywhere anytime soon. I think we will get at least another 4 years out of Lucas, and Lloyd, and at least another two out of Fletch. That should give plenty of time for another group of players to emerge, particularly in the key position posts we look quite good with the likes of Ryder, Laycock, Gumbleton who should all emerge in that period.
The key for us, has it has been over the last few years is being able to add some depth to mid-field. Stanton, Davey, Winderlich, Watson all look to be capable of filling 4 of the positions in the long term, but I think we need to find a "super-star", and another couple of supporting cast members.
Our flanks and pockets are in very good shape. McVeigh, McPhee, Lovett, NLM, Monfries, Slattery, Nash, all have plenty of good footy in front of them, and hopefully a couple of these guys might add some depth to the mid-field problems I mentioned earlier.
Add Jetta, Houli, Rama, Dempsey to the list of "hopefulls", and things are looking pretty good. Dyson, and Johns are not exactly dead and buried yet either.
We will miss Hird (wouldnt anyone?), but the other guys are not as "old" as they seem. Oh, one other thing. Lloyd will get better.
Why is everyone so worried about "the ageing list"
yeah exactly i dont know why they are worried either, like i said in another thread it's bloody hard for the younger guys to overshadow possibly 4 of the greatest key position players of the modern game
i think our team is in a pretty decent position at the moment, might not be the best but we will be right up there for the next couple of years i would say, the younger kids will only get better and more consistent
i think our team is in a pretty decent position at the moment, might not be the best but we will be right up there for the next couple of years i would say, the younger kids will only get better and more consistent
Yes there is this pre-occupation with youth and playing the kids. I'm not too concerned that it is 'reported' that its Hird, Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher that are solely responsible for our wins. This totally disregards the contributions made by our kids and players like McVeigh who has worked his butt off all season!
Its nice being underestimated, and it will happen again on Friday night. Though in fairness, it should. Geelong are hot at the moment.
P.S. We'll be involved in 3 drafts (at least) until Lloyd and Lucas hang up their boots.
P.S.S It was over for Essendon in 91/92 when Daniher, Madden and company retired. We won the flag in 1993!
P.S.S.S We finished 14th in 1997. 2 years later we were a kick away from a Grand Final and 3 years later recorded the best season EVER by any team in VFL/AFL history.
The moral of the story is ... things can change very quickly!
Its nice being underestimated, and it will happen again on Friday night. Though in fairness, it should. Geelong are hot at the moment.
P.S. We'll be involved in 3 drafts (at least) until Lloyd and Lucas hang up their boots.
P.S.S It was over for Essendon in 91/92 when Daniher, Madden and company retired. We won the flag in 1993!
P.S.S.S We finished 14th in 1997. 2 years later we were a kick away from a Grand Final and 3 years later recorded the best season EVER by any team in VFL/AFL history.
The moral of the story is ... things can change very quickly!
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jimmyc1985
- Champion of Essendon
- Posts: 5869
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:33 pm
- Location: Position A
I'm not sure 'worried' is the right word to ascribe to the way i feel about the fact it's the same 4 blokes, all of whom are veterans, winning matches for us every time. It's just that i'd prefer it wasn't the case - presumably, we'd all prefer to have less reliance on our old players than what we currently do.
As to how long they all play on, i, along with anyone else, hope they all play as long as possible. But no one can predict how long each may go on for - they might still be effective at 33 or 34 like Hird or Harvey are, or their bodies might suddenly pack up like Buckley, Ricciuto, Neitz, Voss or Tredrea (or even Barry Hall - looks to be battling).
The reliance on the abovementioned 4 players is a serious issue this season, because we haven't got a hope in hell of even coming close to replacing any of them if they go down injured. Most people i reckon on BT expect us to make finals, but if any of those 4 go down for a month or more, we won't in my opinion. Simple as that.
As for the years ahead, it's less of an issue on the assumption that other players will develop. As TopDon said, things can change quickly enough. A supporter of any of the 16 clubs could point to their list and mount a case as to why they'll be good in 2-3 years. Whether we're any good in 2-3 years will depend on whether the players we currently have satisfactorily develop to replace those who'll be dropping out or nearing the end of their careers. Each year, if you 'find' 3-4 150+ game players, you'll be building toward serious contention soon enough - this year, i reckon we've 'found' Davey, Ryder and possibly Winderlich.
My major gripe with the list management has to do with our nibbling at the edges and lack of brutality over the last 3 years. If we're being fair dinkum about the whole show, here's 7 players that should be moved on at the end of the year: Campo, Cole, Heff, Bolts, JJ, MJ and Hird.
As to how long they all play on, i, along with anyone else, hope they all play as long as possible. But no one can predict how long each may go on for - they might still be effective at 33 or 34 like Hird or Harvey are, or their bodies might suddenly pack up like Buckley, Ricciuto, Neitz, Voss or Tredrea (or even Barry Hall - looks to be battling).
The reliance on the abovementioned 4 players is a serious issue this season, because we haven't got a hope in hell of even coming close to replacing any of them if they go down injured. Most people i reckon on BT expect us to make finals, but if any of those 4 go down for a month or more, we won't in my opinion. Simple as that.
As for the years ahead, it's less of an issue on the assumption that other players will develop. As TopDon said, things can change quickly enough. A supporter of any of the 16 clubs could point to their list and mount a case as to why they'll be good in 2-3 years. Whether we're any good in 2-3 years will depend on whether the players we currently have satisfactorily develop to replace those who'll be dropping out or nearing the end of their careers. Each year, if you 'find' 3-4 150+ game players, you'll be building toward serious contention soon enough - this year, i reckon we've 'found' Davey, Ryder and possibly Winderlich.
My major gripe with the list management has to do with our nibbling at the edges and lack of brutality over the last 3 years. If we're being fair dinkum about the whole show, here's 7 players that should be moved on at the end of the year: Campo, Cole, Heff, Bolts, JJ, MJ and Hird.
Some of the yuonger players are learning to get us oiut of trouble. Laycock kicked 2 very important goals on Friday night, Ryder will be able to also help get us out in trouble in the future running off half back possibly at CHB if he can put on some size. Add to that all the names robbie mentioned and we have a bright future.tom9779 wrote:we have an old spine.
and really this is the spine thats in place which gets us going again and again when we are trouble during a game.
Michael
Fletcher
Hird
Lucas
Lloyd
It's very worrying. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
Our spine will be gone in three years. At the moment, the only player that looks like they can step in and be a geunine star is Ryder. Gumby obviously needs more time, so no opinion offered there. Big wraps on him though.
Laycock had a great game against the Demons, but two good games in four years doesn't read well. Hille is an average to good ruckmen at best.
Stanton, Watson and Winder are all serviceable, but miles from forming a dangerous midfield. Best we can hope for from them is to break even. Lovett will need to stand up in the middle for us.
Pockets look alright as far as Davey and Jetta go. We've got the flanks covered also.
We need to find at least two or three gun midfielders, develop Gumby, hope to hell Laycock can deilver and hope that Ryder continues his impressive form.
Our spine will be gone in three years. At the moment, the only player that looks like they can step in and be a geunine star is Ryder. Gumby obviously needs more time, so no opinion offered there. Big wraps on him though.
Laycock had a great game against the Demons, but two good games in four years doesn't read well. Hille is an average to good ruckmen at best.
Stanton, Watson and Winder are all serviceable, but miles from forming a dangerous midfield. Best we can hope for from them is to break even. Lovett will need to stand up in the middle for us.
Pockets look alright as far as Davey and Jetta go. We've got the flanks covered also.
We need to find at least two or three gun midfielders, develop Gumby, hope to hell Laycock can deilver and hope that Ryder continues his impressive form.
Like sand through the hour glass, so are the days at the Essendon Football Club.
Fletcher, Hird, Lucas, Lloyd. These guys are the focal points. It stands to reason that they will stand out. Fletcher is the General of the back line. Hird is a genius as a ruck rover - he leads by example and knows no other way. Lucas has been our main target to goal at half forward while Lloyd is patrolling the full forward region as an alternative option to Lucas and vice versa. If these guys don't fire in their respection key positions, we'd be shitter than shit. Until they relinquish their key positions, they will always be stand outs.
What everyone seems to be forgetting is the good support that is around them. Paddy Ryder, Mark McVeigh have been fantastic in defence this year. I have Mark McVeigh ahead of everyone in the B&F this year. Adam McPhee has also been good this year, certainly better than the last couple. Stanton, Winderlich and Watson have been working very hard this year and have performed very well in most games. And they are improving (except for last game). Don't underestimate Alwyn Davey's influence in our forward thrusts this year. He is responsible for a lot of goals that Lucas and Lloyd have actually got due to his pressure and creativity.
The young kids will all get a go eventually. You can't expect to chuck them all in and expect to win many games at all. If that were the case everyone would want Sheedy sacked because we're not winning games. You need a good blend and on most occasions they have got it right. We have some promising talent that WILL be of excellent value in a couple of years - Houli, Gumby, Nash, Jetta, Dempsey, Hislop, Lonergan, Neagle. And not forgetting Monfries who has been disappointing this year, but will be a top player in the very near future. And if Laycock can burst out and become a consitent performer, we'll have a huge weapon in our arsenal along with Ryder. However, there appears to be a weakness when Fletcher calls it a day at full back.....
What everyone seems to be forgetting is the good support that is around them. Paddy Ryder, Mark McVeigh have been fantastic in defence this year. I have Mark McVeigh ahead of everyone in the B&F this year. Adam McPhee has also been good this year, certainly better than the last couple. Stanton, Winderlich and Watson have been working very hard this year and have performed very well in most games. And they are improving (except for last game). Don't underestimate Alwyn Davey's influence in our forward thrusts this year. He is responsible for a lot of goals that Lucas and Lloyd have actually got due to his pressure and creativity.
The young kids will all get a go eventually. You can't expect to chuck them all in and expect to win many games at all. If that were the case everyone would want Sheedy sacked because we're not winning games. You need a good blend and on most occasions they have got it right. We have some promising talent that WILL be of excellent value in a couple of years - Houli, Gumby, Nash, Jetta, Dempsey, Hislop, Lonergan, Neagle. And not forgetting Monfries who has been disappointing this year, but will be a top player in the very near future. And if Laycock can burst out and become a consitent performer, we'll have a huge weapon in our arsenal along with Ryder. However, there appears to be a weakness when Fletcher calls it a day at full back.....
yeah you're right.BenDoolan wrote:Fletcher, Hird, Lucas, Lloyd. These guys are the focal points. It stands to reason that they will stand out. Fletcher is the General of the back line. Hird is a genius as a ruck rover - he leads by example and knows no other way. Lucas has been our main target to goal at half forward while Lloyd is patrolling the full forward region as an alternative option to Lucas and vice versa. If these guys don't fire in their respection key positions, we'd be shitter than shit. Until they relinquish their key positions, they will always be stand outs.
What everyone seems to be forgetting is the good support that is around them. Paddy Ryder, Mark McVeigh have been fantastic in defence this year. I have Mark McVeigh ahead of everyone in the B&F this year. Adam McPhee has also been good this year, certainly better than the last couple. Stanton, Winderlich and Watson have been working very hard this year and have performed very well in most games. And they are improving (except for last game). Don't underestimate Alwyn Davey's influence in our forward thrusts this year. He is responsible for a lot of goals that Lucas and Lloyd have actually got due to his pressure and creativity.
The young kids will all get a go eventually. You can't expect to chuck them all in and expect to win many games at all. If that were the case everyone would want Sheedy sacked because we're not winning games. You need a good blend and on most occasions they have got it right. We have some promising talent that WILL be of excellent value in a couple of years - Houli, Gumby, Nash, Jetta, Dempsey, Hislop, Lonergan, Neagle. And not forgetting Monfries who has been disappointing this year, but will be a top player in the very near future. And if Laycock can burst out and become a consitent performer, we'll have a huge weapon in our arsenal along with Ryder. However, there appears to be a weakness when Fletcher calls it a day at full back.....
as long as we generate a marking forward to come through up front.(johns, gumbleton) and we find another key position down back.
I am really hoping we get darcy daniher FS rule next year too.
Here is an example of someone who I have no respect for who is "worried" about it as well.gringo wrote:It's very worrying. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
Our spine will be gone in three years. At the moment, the only player that looks like they can step in and be a geunine star is Ryder. Gumby obviously needs more time, so no opinion offered there. Big wraps on him though.
Laycock had a great game against the Demons, but two good games in four years doesn't read well. Hille is an average to good ruckmen at best.
Stanton, Watson and Winder are all serviceable, but miles from forming a dangerous midfield. Best we can hope for from them is to break even. Lovett will need to stand up in the middle for us.
Pockets look alright as far as Davey and Jetta go. We've got the flanks covered also.
We need to find at least two or three gun midfielders, develop Gumby, hope to hell Laycock can deilver and hope that Ryder continues his impressive form.