Player development. What has gone wrong?

seer · Post by **seer** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:12 pm

Of the 15 players drafted under pick 40, (our best chances for future team success) in the 2000 to 2005 drafts, eight have already been sacked, three are playing for Bendigo and of the remaining four, three are yet to establish themselves as regulars.

This group should be the backbone of our team. What has happened? Who should carry the can for this disastrous situation?

Sismis · Post by **Sismis** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:58 pm

Who gives a crap where a player is drafted?

Of our list of 38 we have 26 players 24 or under.

Bradley, Kepler Jury out
Cole, Richard struggling
Davey, Alwyn Gun
Dempsey, Courtenay Jury out
Dyson, Ricky struggling
Gumbleton, Scott Jury out
Hislop, Tom Looking good
Houli, Bachar Looking good
Jetta, Leroy Looking good
Johns, Courtney struggling
Laycock, Jason Looking good
Lee, Andrew Jury out
Lonergan, Sam Jury out
Lovett, Andrew Gun
Lovett-Murray, Nathan Gun
McPhee, Adam Gun
Monfries, Angus Looking good
Nash, Jay Looking good
Neagle, Jay Jury out
Reimers, Kyle Jury out
Ryder, Patrick Gun
Slattery, Henry Gun
Stanton, Brent Gun
Watson, Jobe Gun
Welsh, Andrew Gun
Winderlich, Jason Looking good

From my own ranking we have.

Gun 9
Looking good 7
jury out 7
Struggling 3

For mine that looks like a good,strong,young list with bucketloads of potential. Guys like Licha and Gus are no the verge. Many guys still haven't had their crack for one reason or another. More than half have shown enough to keep their spot.

Boyler_Room · Post by **Boyler_Room** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:20 pm

Geez, you're being generous for Bradley.

I'd rate him as utter crap.

I also think you're being harsh on Widnerlich in comparison to players like Welsh and NLM. He has been nothing short of sensational in the last couple of months.

I'd also put Dyson in the same category as a Winderlich of a few years ago. Yes, he's struggling at the moment (as Winderlich was) but we see glimpses every now and then. He needs time to find his feet in the big leagues and then he'll be a very, very good player (which I'm convinced Winderlich is).

I just watched the West Coast game for the first time. Winderlich was fantastic. So was Laycock in patches. He's another that I think is a very, very good player. He just needs game time to string them together.

Sismis · Post by **Sismis** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:33 pm

I was harsh on Licha/Laycock based simply on consistancy.

As i've said on a number of occasions. Bradley is a work in progress, I'm not willing to cast him aside just yet.

Dyson is lucky we are in a era of midfeilds. On Ocassion he has looked the goods but 10% of the time is not enough. Needs to get consistant and start doing the hard things.

andrewb · Post by **andrewb** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:37 pm

I don't see Dyson making it. He's had 50 odd games now and there's not much upside to him as he's not going to get any quicker (c.f. Bradley / Johns who will always be tall and should get more coordination with age). With the exception of Hird, Campo, Heffernan and Cole there aren't many standouts for delisting at the end of this year so I expect that he'll go.

With regards to player development, 99-01 were terrible years for drafting but 2003-07 have been better than average. It's well known that we've got a doughnut list (big holes in the middle) but the problems seem to been have resolved.

2000 and 2001 were almost criminal they were that bad.

2002 Laycock, Winderlich, Watson and two delists. 3/5 - that's not a bad strike rate.

2003 Bradley, Stanton, Nash - great work in a tough draft 2/3 so far. Bradley has some work to do.

2004 Monfries, Lee, Slattery - 2/3 so far. Lee was always a development project but looks like he might be a failed development project.

2005 Ryder, Dempsay, Baker(?) - 1/3 so far but big wraps on Dempsay.

Maybe have a look at your figures again.

jimmyc1985 · Post by **jimmyc1985** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:54 pm

Bradley ain't gonna come good. I'd give him a 2% chance of 'making it'. Interesting to read Colin Wiseby's comments on Kepler before the 2003 draft - talk about hitting the nail on the head! The fact is that he hasn't deviated one iota from the below description 4 years down the track:

BRADLEY, Kepler (6) [Ess] Gangly athletic giant. Despite reputation, is not quick. Huge heart and motor. Runs hard, far and relentlessly. Very poor natural balance. Iffy kick - Awkward, unbalanced kicking style. What AFL role suits?

You've gotta laugh, because otherwise you'd cry. For those unaware, Colin Wiseby is some random guy who doesn't work for any particular club but watches copious junior footy matches, probably just as many as professional recruiters do.

rama_fan · Post by **rama_fan** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:47 pm

That is quite amazing and just confirms why so many AFL clubs have tried to sign Col up.

He does have some loyalty to Collingwood but as you can imagine having to watch so many junior games he doesn't see much of them.

That description is absolutely perfect.

Boyler_Room · Post by **Boyler_Room** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:50 pm

jimmyc1985 wrote:Bradley ain't gonna come good. I'd give him a 2% chance of 'making it'. Interesting to read Colin Wiseby's comments on Kepler before the 2003 draft - talk about hitting the nail on the head! The fact is that he hasn't deviated one iota from the below description 4 years down the track:

BRADLEY, Kepler (6) [Ess] Gangly athletic giant. Despite reputation, is not quick. Huge heart and motor. Runs hard, far and relentlessly. Very poor natural balance. Iffy kick - Awkward, unbalanced kicking style. What AFL role suits?
You've gotta laugh, because otherwise you'd cry. For those unaware, Colin Wiseby is some random guy who doesn't work for any particular club but watches copious junior footy matches, probably just as many as professional recruiters do.

Except ours.

Doctor Fish · Post by **Doctor Fish** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:16 pm

Sismis wrote:Who gives a crap where a player is drafted?

Of our list of 38 we have 26 players 24 or under.

Bradley, Kepler Jury out
Cole, Richard struggling
Davey, Alwyn Gun
Dempsey, Courtenay Jury out
Dyson, Ricky struggling
Gumbleton, Scott Jury out
Hislop, Tom Looking good
Houli, Bachar Looking good
Jetta, Leroy Looking good
Johns, Courtney struggling
Laycock, Jason Looking good
Lee, Andrew Jury out
Lonergan, Sam Jury out
Lovett, Andrew Gun
Lovett-Murray, Nathan Gun
McPhee, Adam Gun
Monfries, Angus Looking good
Nash, Jay Looking good
Neagle, Jay Jury out
Reimers, Kyle Jury out
Ryder, Patrick Gun
Slattery, Henry Gun
Stanton, Brent Gun
Watson, Jobe Gun
Welsh, Andrew Gun
Winderlich, Jason Looking good

From my own ranking we have.

Gun 9
Looking good 7
jury out 7
Struggling 3

For mine that looks like a good,strong,young list with bucketloads of potential. Guys like Licha and Gus are no the verge. Many guys still haven't had their crack for one reason or another. More than half have shown enough to keep their spot.

Spot on Sismis. If a couple of the jury out guy's get going things will be looking good over the next few years.

Don't know why Ricky is struggling nowadays. He showed quite a lot of promise a couple of years back. Can be frustrating at times...

Rossoneri · Post by **Rossoneri** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:42 pm

Sismis wrote:Who gives a crap where a player is drafted?

Of our list of 38 we have 26 players 24 or under.

Bradley, Kepler Jury out
Cole, Richard struggling
Davey, Alwyn Gun
Dempsey, Courtenay Jury out
Dyson, Ricky struggling
Gumbleton, Scott Jury out
Hislop, Tom Looking good
Houli, Bachar Looking good
Jetta, Leroy Looking good
Johns, Courtney struggling
Laycock, Jason Looking good
Lee, Andrew Jury out
Lonergan, Sam Jury out
Lovett, Andrew Gun
Lovett-Murray, Nathan Gun
McPhee, Adam Gun
Monfries, Angus Looking good
Nash, Jay Looking good
Neagle, Jay Jury out
Reimers, Kyle Jury out
Ryder, Patrick Gun
Slattery, Henry Gun
Stanton, Brent Gun
Watson, Jobe Gun
Welsh, Andrew Gun
Winderlich, Jason Looking good

From my own ranking we have.

Gun 9
Looking good 7
jury out 7
Struggling 3

For mine that looks like a good,strong,young list with bucketloads of potential. Guys like Licha and Gus are no the verge. Many guys still haven't had their crack for one reason or another. More than half have shown enough to keep their spot.

NLM Gun?
Bradley Struggling?
Ryder Gun?
Lee ury out?

NLM is not a gun, far from it. Is a good player, but decision and disposal hurts us more than the opposition.

Bradley struggling, I would say he is gone. Same for Lee.

Ryder is not a gun, yet. Keeps going like this and he will be no doubt, but I would classify him as looking good.

Boyler_Room · Post by **Boyler_Room** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:15 pm

Rossoneri, he didn't say Bradley was struggling, he said the jury is out (which is an upgrade from struggling).

I reckon he's gone too. I'd have a grade below "poor" reserved exclusively for Bradley. As I said, I'd rate him as "utter crap".

Rossoneri · Post by **Rossoneri** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:05 pm

Oops, did the same for Lee as well. I meant to say that they should be put into the category of struggling.

As Robbie pointed out last week, our recruiting from 1997 to 2000 or so was pathetic. As such, the players who should be in their prime at this moment are pathetic or gone.

Our list is looking better, but I wouldnt expect a premiership in the next couple of years.

Players such as Bradley, Johns, Lee, Dyson, Lonergan really need to step up and show something or cut our losses and get rid of them.

Hopefully this bunch of new players such as Davey, Houli, Hislop, Gumbleton etc can come along and be more useful that a few who have come before them.

84859300 · Post by **84859300** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:41 pm

I would love to see Essendon field their own seconds team, just like the Cats are doing at the moment.

There has to be much merit in taking blokes under the one club all playing to the same plans and obtaining some matches under their belts in a position that is where they are needed to play.

Bradley as a prime example. Probably ripe in Sheedy's eyes to bring him in against the Bulldogs for this week, but we have too many forward options. He has played at forward at Bendigo as a leading/marking option. No use bringing him in as a backman or in the ruck for one week.

My point is if we had the cattle and recruited to suit our list, we would be in better shape depth wise than where we are currently sitting with a heap of Collingwood 6 footers and not much else.

I think that this is where Geelong have had their upturn in 2007, along with some half decent recruiting.

No disrespect to Bendigo btw. But it wouldn't be too inspiring to me, to know that when you get dropped that you'd be playing at QEO on a windy Saturday infront of 1500 people. Windy Hill with 3000 could be so much more appealing.