Who wanted sheeds gone

[dom_105]

I like Sheeds, and have been a supporter since 1981, however, after 2001 he has made 1 crucial repetitive error IMHO.

He tried to get another shot, via getting older experienced players...Allan, Murphy, Campo, MM, Zantuck etc...when he should've gone younger.
Younger via the draft, younger via trades...whichever.

He has shown loyalty to his players, especially those he asks to do jobs oop for him, eg Henneman and Bolton, and this trait is fine. Unfortunately it hasn't been a positive for the team.

It's time.

But we were making finals.

We got unlucky 2 years straight when we had to play Port Adelaide away after they finished on top and lost their first final both times.

And there was that semi in 2004 when we played Geelong and it was pissing down and we left our run too late and ended up going down by 10.

Could we have won a flag, probably not. But if circumstances went our way, rather than against us, then we were in with more than a chance.

['51 Bewick]

I have made my feelings on this subject clear elsewhere, so I will not repeat myself. What concerns me is who we will get to replace him just when we may be starting to go forward.

I believe there are 2 quality replacements neither of whom will be available due to present commitments. This leaves us a choice between some rank failures and a plethora of untried "wanabees".

I sincerely hope this doesn't blow up in our collective faces, but it smells awfully like the 1970's when we had a succession of failures coaching this club. If that happens we will know we have made a serious mistake in not grooming someone specifically for the job. If we are successful then those calling for Sheedy's head will have been proven right.

Hopefully those who are wrong will have the grace to admit it. Considering the abuse handed out by some in this forum to others just for having an opinion, I seriously doubt it. In any case my only wish is that everything works out for the best and we return to a position of power.

[JimboC]

I think we all acknowledge...that after 27 years of coaching our great club, he was nearing the inevitable end.

Because of this, the board made the right decision to position us competitively for a tilt at the new crop of coaches...which we need to be invloved in for the next 5 years prospects.

Sheeds can never be replaced...but a new era in the Essendon footy club is upon us...so lets buckle up and focus on the future.

[Makaveli]

Ahem...you forgot your reason

Personally, I would have been happy for him to stay as he has a proven record of developing teams and I have been relatively happy with our progress this year.

Now that the decision to replace him has been made, I accept that it has happened and I look forward to finding out who the new coach will be.

Sorry got to writing it then had to finish it off quickly so didn't get a chance to give my reasons. It appears the majority think it was the correct decision. Anyhow, the reason he should of gone is because his had his pet players around the club for too long, plays older players too often in favour of youngsters, the team selections and lack of dropping senior players who are terribly out of form is disturbing, the teams been fadeing in and out of games continually for the past 5 years and it still hasn't been adressed. Tactically he is very poor in my opnion and too often gets away with ridiculous positional changes because his 'sheeds' and back in 1984 it worked.
I think Chris Bond would be a good coach, he seems very astute, confident, a good preparation having coached his own teams and has been an assistant under 3 different coaches i beleive.

[ealesy]

I wanted him gone, but not just him, the rest of the coaching staff as well needs to change. The tactics employed are not entirely Sheedys fault, we do have three assistant coaches.

We needed the change, not because Sheeds is old, but we continualy get out-coached. We dont pick the right team for the right ground and we dont have enough runners (midfielders not Barnes-like figures) in the team when we play at the 'G.

I agree, but I would go a step further and say the whole foobtall department needs a broom through it. Full of people Sheedy appointed, that haven't delivered the results that they should've but have stayed on because Sheedy has had control over the department. (I'm thinking Dodoro and Quinn in paritcular- now Quinn might be a great fitness coach, who knows but the fact remains that we have an unacceptable level of injuries-particularly soft tissues and recurring injuries)

The fact PJ said that the next coach would not be given control over the entire football department spoke volumes to me.

[ealesy]

This leaves us a choice between some rank failures and a plethora of untried "wanabees".

Which is exactly what the likes of Sheedy, Matthews, Malthouse, and Pagan were before they got senior coaching jobs and coached teams to multiple premierships.

[andrewb]

I wanted a transition plan.
Would have been happy if they had have sacked him start of 2005 because it was obvious that we were going backwards. But now we're going forwards.

I here ya, but we made the 2nd week of finals in 2004. Given the outcry we've had over Sheeds being flicked at the end of this year on the back of 2 consecutive bottom 4 finishes and a likely 10-11th this year, imagine the outcry if he got the arse after we'd made the second week of finals!

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but remember that Sheedy could only coach a team that had four of the EFC's best 30 players of all time - Hird, Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher (all in their prime, let alone the support cast) - to one flag between 1999 and 2004.

We should have started rebuilding in 2003/04. Instead, we waited until 2005/06 to really start turning the list over.

[jimmyc1985]

I wanted a transition plan.
Would have been happy if they had have sacked him start of 2005 because it was obvious that we were going backwards. But now we're going forwards.

I here ya, but we made the 2nd week of finals in 2004. Given the outcry we've had over Sheeds being flicked at the end of this year on the back of 2 consecutive bottom 4 finishes and a likely 10-11th this year, imagine the outcry if he got the arse after we'd made the second week of finals!

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but remember that Sheedy could only coach a team that had four of the EFC's best 30 players of all time - Hird, Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher (all in their prime, let alone the support cast) - to one flag between 1999 and 2004.

We should have started rebuilding in 2003/04. Instead, we waited until 2005/06 to really start turning the list over.

We're in agreement here. I'd venture to say that i wanted Sheedy gone more than almost anyone on BT. You don't need to vindicate your reasons for wanting Sheedy gone to me, because i'm acutely cognisant of them myself already and almost certainly will agree with you!

All i'm saying is that, back in 2004 when he had his contract renewed, he had a pretty solid position based on the team's performance from which to bargain with the Board. It would've taken an extremely brave, bordering on reckless, Board to get rid of him at the end of 2004. As i've said elsewhere, the big mistake on the Board's part was giving him 3 years instead of 2. 2 years would've been entirely appropriate given the way he was managing the list (i.e. Sheedy's chronic short-termism approach from 2001-2005), and it would've been easy to get rid of him last year having avoided the spoon by percentage only.

[Rossoneri]

This leaves us a choice between some rank failures and a plethora of untried "wanabees".

Which is exactly what the likes of Sheedy, Matthews, Malthouse, and Pagan were before they got senior coaching jobs and coached teams to multiple premierships.

As were Paul Roos, Mark Williams and John Worsfold.

[Scott]

3 year contract for me, he was rebuilding, he's been there before and produced some sensational sides.

But the more it sinks in that he's no longer going to be there, the more excited I become, anticipation of a new coach and what they will bring.

I just didn't want sheeds to coach against us thats all. If he did something other than coach it would make it a lot easier I reckon.

[bombers_rock]

But the more it sinks in that he's no longer going to be there, the more excited I become, anticipation of a new coach and what they will bring.

My only concern is what happens if we get a string of dud coaches - or good coaches that just cant get us to that one day in September. Are we going to have years of being close, but not close enough, ala the filth?

There are both positives and negatives.

['51 Bewick]

Which is exactly what the likes of Sheedy, Matthews, Malthouse, and Pagan were before they got senior coaching jobs and coached teams to multiple premierships.

As were Paul Roos, Mark Williams and John Worsfold.

And how many failed, what a selective argument.
Also most of these coaches were taken on by clubs who had successive failures previously, hence they really had nothing to lose.

It is a really long stretch to apply that argument to Essendon's circumstances.
I can see some of your argument in the fact that Sheedy was getting to the end of the road, however I feel we have shot ourselves in the foot by not handling the transition with a plan of succession.

If you think this through, that is a far superior way to handle the situation, rather than just taking pot luck. That is the way successful companies do business, whereas struggling companies just turn people over with no improvement.

Anyway, no matter how much we banter back and forth, the only proof either way will been in the performance of the new coach and the team over the next 3-5 years.

[ealesy]

Which is exactly what the likes of Sheedy, Matthews, Malthouse, and Pagan were before they got senior coaching jobs and coached teams to multiple premierships.

As were Paul Roos, Mark Williams and John Worsfold.

And how many failed, what a selective argument.

Also most of these coaches were taken on by clubs who had successive failures previously, hence they really had nothing to lose.

It is a really long stretch to apply that argument to Essendon's circumstances.
I can see some of your argument in the fact that Sheedy was getting to the end of the road, however I feel we have shot ourselves in the foot by not handling the transition with a plan of succession.

If you think this through, that is a far superior way to handle the situation, rather than just taking pot luck. That is the way successful companies do business, whereas struggling companies just turn people over with no improvement.

Anyway, no matter how much we banter back and forth, the only proof either way will been in the performance of the new coach and the team over the next 3-5 years.

The point I was making is no more selective than your post which suggested we are doomed to years of failure because the only coaches that are available have tried and failed or have no experience as a senior coach.

I see your point about have a transition/succession period but that was never going to work...Sheedy had too much of an ego for that. And how would it work anyway. Would Sheedy still be in charge of the football department, recruiting, game plan, selection etc while he had the new coach learning under him as an assistant.

That the only way I can see Sheedy agreeing to it, and then we might as well have kept him on a the coach anyway.

Once the Board decided that Sheedy was no longer the coach that should be leading us into the future, it seems pretty clear to me that they only way they could do it was to make a clean break.

[ealesy]

3 year contract for me, he was rebuilding, he's been there before and produced some sensational sides.

How long does he get to rebuild....the last time we were serious contenders was 2001...6 years ago.

He got greedy and tried to top up for another tilt and did this for the next 3 years with what were mostly duds from other clubs. (eg Murphy, Allan, Zantuck etc). His drafting during this time was also pathetically woeful. Now sure Dodoro is the recruiting manager, but you are kidding if you say Sheedy did not get final say on who we picked up.

Look at the speed Port has rebuilt and to a lesser extent even the Lions have rebuilt. I would say that they are both closer to their flag at the moment than we are.

And since Sheedy has realised that the list was crap and started rebuilding, I would question how well he has done it. 2 bottom 4 finishes, another year out of the finals this year (most likely). I would also say their are a fair few question marks over a number of our younger players.

And to simply say he's done it in the past, does not cut it for me. Pagan had done it before, should Carlton had kept him on indefinitely? Neale Daniher got Melbourne to a Grand Final, why was he given more time to get them to another one?

[Boyler_Room]

Football is a business and succession planning is a vital part of a business strategy, in my opinion. I'm a huge fan of Peter Jackson, and I'm wishing Graeme McMahon was still sitting in the "chair", but I think he's let this one slip a little by not so much going down the road of succession planning but rather doing the same old same old when it comes time for a coach to end his career.

I'm sure, thinking about this as I type, the David Parkin/Wayne Brittan scenario was contemplated... and we know how that worked out. Pagan took over. (Of course, there were other circumstances surrounding that, and the board did a great job leading up to it... )

For the record, I wanted Sheeds to stay. I'm of the opinion that he's the best coach available. With Sheeds going, my first preference would have been Mark Williams, but he's not going anywhere, so now we'll see what happens.

['51 Bewick]

Anyway, no matter how much we banter back and forth, the only proof either way will been in the performance of the new coach and the team over the next 3-5 years.

The point I was making is no more selective than your post which suggested we are doomed to years of failure because the only coaches that are available have tried and failed or have no experience as a senior coach.

If you bother to read my quote, I didn't say we are doomed at all. What I said was we haven't handled the situation in the best possible manner. You seem to think that anybody who doesn't go along with your "Off with his head" approach, must be a screaming board hating moron.

It is possible to take a balanced view of what has happened and make constructive criticism, without the need for taking sides as it were. Think for a little while as to whether you truly believe that every possible step was taken, and that personal agendas and preferences did not have any bearing on the decision taken.

My personal hope is that everything will work out and Essendon will soon become a power again but, as I stated before, only time will tell.

[F111]

But the more it sinks in that he's no longer going to be there, the more excited I become, anticipation of a new coach and what they will bring.

My only concern is what happens if we get a string of dud coaches - or good coaches that just cant get us to that one day in September. Are we going to have years of being close, but not close enough, ala the filth?

.

Into the valley of death rode....

Brave New World up ahead. Brace yourselves!

[tonysoprano]

Agree with Rosso and F111 - our tactics and recruiting have been substandard (if not disasterous) for the last few years.

He had to finish some time - I'm glad it wasn't last year when we had our worst season in over 70 years - that would not befit a man of his stature in the game.

[CameronClayton]

I wanted a transition plan.
Would have been happy if they had have sacked him start of 2005 because it was obvious that we were going backwards. But now we're going forwards.

I here ya, but we made the 2nd week of finals in 2004. Given the outcry we've had over Sheeds being flicked at the end of this year on the back of 2 consecutive bottom 4 finishes and a likely 10-11th this year, imagine the outcry if he got the arse after we'd made the second week of finals!

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but remember that Sheedy could only coach a team that had four of the EFC's best 30 players of all time - Hird, Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher (all in their prime, let alone the support cast) - to one flag between 1999 and 2004.

We should have started rebuilding in 2003/04. Instead, we waited until 2005/06 to really start turning the list over.

Most on here know that i wanted Sheeds gone 3 years ago, when we could have signed up Bomber Thompson easily. Just on the above comment, we should have started rebuilding in 2002, just like Williams at Port did the year after they won the flag (now look at them).

Our club stupidly thought that 2002-2004 were successful years because we finished 6th. I reckon your aim should be to make top 4 to have a real crack at the flag, as i believe 5th to 8th are just cannon fodder come finals time.

5th to 8th is fine if you have done your rebuilding & are commencing to climb the ladder, to give the younger blokes a taste. For an ageing, finals experienced team like ours, 2002 -2004 were a waste of time.

Sure there would have been a huge uproar if Sheeds got the flick 3 years ago (mind you, plenty of coaches have been given the flick after making the finals the previous year), but we would be a lot stronger team now if it had happened (assuming we got Bomber). Bomber would have done a Hawthorn with our list (big clean out) & we would be contending this year & be a big chance next year.

[MH_Bomber]

I wanted a succession/transition plan. Because of the unique circumstances in the longevity of Sheedy's tenure and what he has brought to the club in that period, we had to go about this differently than other clubs.

We have become an AFL powerhouse because of his amazing promotional ability and his record of 4 flags and numerous finals appearances in the non-flag years. We theoretically should have won in both 1999 and 2001 but fell just at the last hurdle. The incredible year in 2000 made up for that a bit but by rights we should have won 6 flags in his era. For these reasons I wanted him to basically retire and give his blessing to the future coach.

I agree with many of the other posters thoughts on the mistakes made in recent years and the seeming demise of his coaching abilities, selection and recruitment abilities. He became quite sentimental about some of his 'project' players whereas I think in his earlier career he may have been more ruthless. However can he successes be just washed away by recent failure.

The new coach now will be living with the colossal shadow of his legacy over their head. As bomber fans we have become expectant of success because that is what Sheedy brought to the club. Will we be forgiving enough of the new bloke should things get a bit rough ?

When I think about how he has promoted Essendon it worries me he wont be there spruicking us as he has for 27 years. There are times when this has almost become a distraction to the business of playing and winning. However it will be weird not to have Sheedy there on ANZAC games, Dreamtime games and West Coast jacket waving games.

It also sickens me to think of him coaching elsewhere. Its like he's part of Essendon. I am probably older than most of the other BTers and he has been at the helm since I was 19 - thats basically all my adult life. Its just a very emotional time for Bomber fans.

In saying all this there is no way there should be any disruptive EGM and attempt to destabilise the board. Disunity is death. The decision is made - a brave one at that - and we need to unify behind the new coach and give Kevin Sheedy a fantastic send off.