Here's the Problem With Victorian Football

Windy_Hill · Post by **Windy_Hill** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:00 pm

Too Many Clubs

The Perth and Adelaide teams have in theory potential supporter bases of 600,000 each

That's about half the local population in each of Perth and Adelaide. (Remeber this is the potential fan base, not necessatily the actual)

Its a little more difficult to determine the same figures in Brisbane and Sydney but for argument sake, I am assuming that there will be in time at least 500,000 AFL fans on which to draw interest.

Of course the Adelaide and Perth clubs have massive memberships (with waiting lists)

They have a heads up advantage on local young talent with excellent local leagues

Brisbane and Sydney do not share this adavantage but have had draft priorities and salary cap advantages in recent years.

In Victoria we have 10 clubs sharing a potential fan base of 3.5 million.

This results in less exclusivity on membership and other commercial aspects of the game.

Victorian clubs do not enjoy the same ratings for live games as they only play away from home 4 or 5 times a year. Interstate clubs are away from home 11 times a year and thus enjoy 'live' TV more often - Great for sponsors

Put simply, we have too many clubs in Victoria - evident by the number of clubs here who are prepared to move their home games interstate for a few more bucks

We must reduce the competition to 12 teams with 6 in Victoria

Essendon
Carlton
Collingwood
Melbourne Kangaroos
Hawthorn Saints
Geelong Bulldogs

In this way we return to an equitable fixtures draw with all teams playing each other twice in a 22 round season.

We have a final 6 instead of a final 8

We will have a national competition with all clubs sharing equitable the available money

Rossoneri · Post by **Rossoneri** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:10 pm

I have stated for a while that he merge 4 teams into 2 or just get rid of two teams all together. I think thats the best way to go but the AFL doesnt want to believe it. They think that my giving the clubs more money, things will work itself out.

But its the fact that the talent pool in Vic is smaller than the other states as we have two many teams down here.

jimmyc1985 · Post by **jimmyc1985** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:43 pm

WindyHill, where did Richmond go in your configuration of 6 Victorian teams

I'll concede that they are easy to forget about due to their long history of mediocrity

That aside, it's no doubt the case that, in the long run, 10 Victorian clubs is both financially non-viable and is slowly leading to a situation where Victorian clubs are becoming less competitive. The sooner the AFL and the wider Victorian footballing public recognise this, the better in my opinion. If Ross Oakley was still the head honcho at AFL, there's no way we'd still have 10 Victorian teams.

But also acknowledge it's easy for us to say from our ivory towers - no matter what the state of the competition, Essendon will always survive so for us to call for a rationalisation of Victorian clubs is easy.

SuperSonic · Post by **SuperSonic** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:14 pm

Who cares honestly.

I'm glad I don't share the views of Barrassi.

No victorian teams left? FANTASTIC.

Post by **Jazz_84** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:36 pm

fair enough on the topic but fairly harsh to merge teams like melbourne and geelong together and to a slightly lesser extent, saints and hawks, they have been around for a long time and lets put ourselves in their shoes... if we were to be forced to merge all hell would break loose! and id hate to be a moderator on a bombers forum if we did

.

your argument may well be true but im sure you know just like i do that it wont happen

Good thread Windy_Hill

Sartorius · Post by **Sartorius** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:58 pm

Don't know if we need to reduce the number of teams in the competition, but we will certainly have to reduce the number of vic teams sooner or later. Maybe have one on the gold coast or north sydney or tassie. Maybe even another one in SA or WA

temporary stevo · Post by **temporary stevo** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:14 pm

can't seeing it happening for quite a while. there's still a lot of bleeding from Fitzroy.

Makaveli · Post by **Makaveli** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:04 pm

Everyone just needs to relax, the vic teams will make a re-surgence, as soon as essendon comes back up all this will be knocked on the head.

Post by **Megan** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:52 pm

I agree with Gossy. I think it's more likely for a team to base themselves in ACT, and one to base itself in Tassie, etc than it is for them to merge.

Mostly because it's in Vlad's best "It's a truely national competition" interest.

Hawks are testing the waters as we speak.

Crowny · Post by **Crowny** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:39 am

Good post Windy. I dont think its viable for 10 victorian clubs to survive in the long term. I reckon one will go to the Gold Coast eventually which would reduce the number to 9. Im not sure whether Canberra or Tassie has the population or resources to support a team there full-time.

With Sydneys population I reckon there is potential for a 2nd team but vlad and adolf would have to grow a brain and provide some meaningful support to both the Swans and local leagues and come up with some sort of program to send players to schools, give out some free tickets, book grounds for clinics etc.

Not sure about mergers etc. Its a better option than clubs folding and teams should be able to play each other twice in a season although there would be some pretty agrieved supporters.

swoodley · Post by **swoodley** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:06 am

As long as the AFL can continue to make blockbuster media deals, they will have the money to prop up the lesser clubs and it is unlikely thattoo many (if any) Victorian clubs will disappear.

The current imbalance in performance has nothing to do with the number of Victorian clubs but more to do with interstate clubs being more professionally run at present and the fact that they all enjoy a huge home ground advantage.

They are used to the regular travel and know that the Victorian clubs don't tend to enjoy it.

When they play in Victoria, they play at MCG or Telstra Dome (except for the occasional game at Geelong) and so they get used to those grounds and develop strategies to succeed on them.

Most of the Victorian clubs play each other at either the MCG ot Telstra and thus negate any chance of a home ground advantage. When they play interstate (once a year, occasionally twice in Perth/Adelaide) they play in front of hugely partisan crowds and most clubs tend to have a negative perspective on the travel.

When Victorian clubs are successful (as in 2000 with the bombers) they do not fear playing anywhere and take a much more positive mindset with them when they travel.

As for interstate clubs being able to take advantage of local talent, what are recruiting officers and their support teams for. All Victorian clubs would have local spotters in each state whose job would be to look for potential players and any half decent player gets talked about locally and thus would be known to the Victorian clubs if they have their shit together.

This interstate dominance is cyclical and will no doubt change in the next few years as the salary cap and draft do their thing.

Finally, The AFL is committed to a 16 team competition and that is how it will stay (certainly in the short to medium term)

mrredfox · Post by **mrredfox** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:24 am

actually having a level playing field for all clubs wouldnt be a bad start. Take away all the salary cap concessions and lets see how all sides fair.

Supporter base doesnt effect on field performance and there is no reason why victorian clubs can not be as succesfull.

s'dreams · Post by **s'dreams** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:52 pm

First post in the new forum.

Apart from supporter base, recruiting practices and an understrength local league,

far too many Victorian clubs are poorly managed and badly administered.

Certain clubs appear to spend more energy on boardroom antics and in the board destablising their coaches than on building a winning team. Apart from the Dockers, I can't recall this happeining (from this distance) amongst the interstate teams.

Cheers - STI

antcl · Post by **antcl** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:23 pm

Part of the reason there is so much money though is because there are 8 games each week. Take away sides, and you'll have less games and less TV money.

I don't see a problem. If AFL suceeds long term, it will mean NSW & QLD slowly build more teams, and as that happens Victorian teams will move/fade away.

bombercol · Post by **bombercol** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:39 pm

I think swoodley has hit the nail on the head.

The interstate teams enjoy such a home ground advantage over the Victorian teams. Home town umpiring decisions, conditions, and the fact that the normal Victorian club only has to travel anywhere from 4-6 times a year. The will at most only play at Subiaco twice, AAMI Stadium twice, Sydney once, Brisbane once. If the draw falls that way a club may not even get a game at either of those venues.

The interstate teams travel every second week.
An interstate club only needs to win 2 or 3 away games, win all of their home games and they make the finals.

Essendon for instance, we play interstate and against the Melbourne teams we play at the MCG or The dome, where our opponents know the ground and conditions just as well as us.

I don't think you will see mergers, too much pain exisits with Fitzroy people and it's hard to forget the emotions of people when Hawthorn and Melbourne almost merged.

If Victorian teams are chopped, for example they chop North Melbourne all together, could you see their supporters embracing another club? No they will be lost to the code.

The example of this is when the NRL chopped South Sydney. (Supporter base that would be the equal of a Collingwood). A clubt that provides many good young players in the younger ranks and grass roots. Many South Sydney supporters would not attend the NRL matches in protest, they started watching the Waratahs and the Swans.

Victorian clubs need to recruits smarter and this year need to make this years draft picks and trades work for them.

Sponsorship will always be in Melbourne. The clubs need to market more activiley and get more supporters to sign up as members. Out of the 36 odd thousand members we've got, how many more would we get if every Essendon fan that attends for instance a sell out MCG game signed up? How much better off would the club be?

I can see in the future a couple of re locations but that's it.

Maybe it's time to do away with the pre season comp and add a few extra rounds to even out the draw of who you play once and twice.

Things happen in cycles. It's happening to Brisbane and Port Adelaide now. It will happen to the Sydneys and Adelaides, etc too.

Rover 7 · Post by **Rover 7** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:36 pm

Ah,yes,but.
There are many issues and one of them is laziness.Communist systems do that to people.Arrogence as well in our case.
Let's hope the next chairman comes in wearing hobnail boots and not hush puppies.
The wild west and even the midwest still have to prove they are as good as or better than us.People from the Eastern States as they say in Perth.Still a huge motivation and it shows.
In the North,well that's slightly different.They couldn't give a Bondi cigar so the secretariat had to hit 'em over the head.With our money.
But still,given the system we are stuck with our club and most in Victoria have been less than astute as Damian Barrott points out in today's HUN.

uptick · Post by **uptick** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:13 pm

Just read the HUN piece. It makes the EFC look like woodducks, like the Dorkers of yesteryear, when we gave them players by the gross for LLoyd

fordmania · Post by **fordmania** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:53 pm

Yes, I think there are too many teams in Vic. Vlad and Adolf have said they are not going to set a team up in Tassie. Heads in sand again. The Tasmanians are screaming, I'm sure, for a team to be posted down there and as between Hobart and Launceston, only a couple of hours drive between, I think, haven't been there yet. Surely that Government would get behind whichever stadium the team plays in and build them a decent ground and facilities. Tasmanian Hawks IMO.
The Gold Coast have got their stadium up to decent facilities, so North Melbourne away you go.

bombercol · Post by **bombercol** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:56 pm

fordmania wrote: The Gold Coast have got their stadium up to decent facilities, so North Melbourne away you go.

Yes and we can call them very North Melbourne

Post by **Jazz_84** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:59 pm

fordmania wrote: The Gold Coast have got their stadium up to decent facilities, so North Melbourne away you go.

still needs a lot of money poured into it im afraid, and i honestly dont think the gold coast could support a team based full time up here, 20 000 people to each game is all they would get and is that enough???