Depressing but true

[j-mac31]

One thing Connolly mentioned were players we picked up in trades, although McPhee was not named in the same sentence.

Hands up who thinks the McPhee trade was bad for EFC. While he hasn't been at his best the past few years, he had two very good years and even Cupido had one. Alvey, Cupido, McPhee and Zantuck were all in the same boat (ie. 21-23) when they arrived and if they had all worked out, we wouldn't have been so bad over the past few years and looking to the near future. I don't think these were bad trades given our situation.

Picking up older players though - Camporeale, Michael, Murphy - I think has hurt though, because they take up a spot that a younger player could have had. Plus we only get a few years out of them when we suck anyway. If we were top 6 material, picking up and older decent player would have made sense.
Not so sure about getting Allan. Hille probably wasn't quite ready then and Laycock and Cartledge certainly weren't and there seems to be a belief around AFL circles and here that you don't throw young ruckmen in for too long without a break. Therefore he was probably a good pickup.

And yes, our early drafting from bout '98 til 2003 sucked, although I felt COnnolly was a bit harsh on our list, the future looks alright so far.

[robbie67]

Yeah I agree we have a lack of good 23-26 year olds, but shit, I do not think we had the high draft picks to blow.

Why doesn't someone make a list of players we could have drafted? ie someone can't because that list would be pretty shallow.

I think we stuffed up about 2 first rounders.(the guy we took in 01 and bradley in 2003).

Here is 98 to 03 for you. Seeing that's what we really are talking about.

98 taken after Rama, but before Henno = Brady Rawlings, Brett Burton, David Wojinski.
98 taken after Henno = Steven Baker, Tyson Stengline, Craig Bolton, Brendon Fevola, Heath Scotland, Andrew Embley.
99 Suspended from first two rounds due to salary cap penalties.
00 taken after James Davies, but before Ted Richards = Daniel Kerr, Richard Hadley, Drew Petrie, Luke Ablett, Mark Coughlan.
00 taken after Ted Richards = Jamie Charman, Adam McPhee, Mark Williams, Josh Hunt, Domenic Cassisi, Amon Buchanan, Chris Newman, Daniel Cross, Graham Johncock.
01 taken after Shane Harvey, but before Joel Reynolds = Jason Gram, Matt Maguire, Steve Johnson.
01 after Joel Reynolds = Campbell Brown, David Rodan, Sam Mitchell, Leigh Montagna, Ashley Hanson, Paul Medhurst, Dane Swan, Adam Schneider.
02 taken after Laycock/Winderlich, but before Walsh/Cartledge = Jay Schulz, Byron Schammer, Troy Selwood, Will Minson, Tom Lonergan, Jared Rivers.
02 taken after Walsh/Cartledge = Daniel Merrett, Luke Jericho, Brent Staker, Leigh Fisher, Adam Selwood, Ryan Crowley, Nick Malceski.
03 taken after Kepler Bradley, but before Brent Stanton = Raph Clarke, Riley Dunn, Beau Waters.

Without doubt, we have fcked up time and time again, and not just fcked up, but fcked up ROYALLY!!

Here is 08 team what could have been.

F Davey Lloyd Burton
HF S Johnson Lucas Medhurst
C McVeigh Kerr Montagna
HB Johncock Maguire C Bolton
B Ryder Fletcher Brown
Fol Hille Mitchell A Selwood
Int Charman Myers Newman Embley

I know that is relying on getting most of them right, which is something no club manages, but imagine how much better we would be if we only got 33% of those right?

[Jazz_84]

Lucas/Lloyd/Fevola



skipping on Daniel Kerr hurts

[Boyler_Room]

Here is 98 to 03 for you. Seeing that's what we really are talking about.

98 taken after Rama, but before Henno = Brady Rawlings, Brett Burton, David Wojinski.
98 taken after Henno = Steven Baker, Tyson Stengline, Craig Bolton, Brendon Fevola, Heath Scotland, Andrew Embley.
99 Suspended from first two rounds due to salary cap penalties.
00 taken after James Davies, but before Ted Richards = Daniel Kerr, Richard Hadley, Drew Petrie, Luke Ablett, Mark Coughlan.
00 taken after Ted Richards = Jamie Charman, Adam McPhee, Mark Williams, Josh Hunt, Domenic Cassisi, Amon Buchanan, Chris Newman, Daniel Cross, Graham Johncock.
01 taken after Shane Harvey, but before Joel Reynolds = Jason Gram, Matt Maguire, Steve Johnson.
01 after Joel Reynolds = Campbell Brown, David Rodan, Sam Mitchell, Leigh Montagna, Ashley Hanson, Paul Medhurst, Dane Swan, Adam Schneider.
02 taken after Laycock/Winderlich, but before Walsh/Cartledge = Jay Schulz, Byron Schammer, Troy Selwood, Will Minson, Tom Lonergan, Jared Rivers.
02 taken after Walsh/Cartledge = Daniel Merrett, Luke Jericho, Brent Staker, Leigh Fisher, Adam Selwood, Ryan Crowley, Nick Malceski.
03 taken after Kepler Bradley, but before Brent Stanton = Raph Clarke, Riley Dunn, Beau Waters.

Without doubt, we have fcked up time and time again, and not just fcked up, but fcked up ROYALLY!!

Here is 08 team what could have been.

F Davey Lloyd Burton
HF S Johnson Lucas Medhurst
C McVeigh Kerr Montagna
HB Johncock Maguire C Bolton
B Ryder Fletcher Brown
Fol Hille Mitchell A Selwood
Int Charman Myers Newman Embley

I know that is relying on getting most of them right, which is something no club manages, but imagine how much better we would be if we only got 33% of those right?

Ouch. And that is one heck of a team.

[Crazyman]

I understand what you are trying to say by putting up the missed picks, however, a couple of points:

1. When drafted, many kids have potential (only ours don't seem to fulfill it...)
2. When drafted, it is not to be known who is going to be a star and who will fall by the wayside (hindsight shows that most of ours have fallen...)
3. Apart from a couple of picks, you can't say who was picked before our second choice cause after our first pick, we didn't have the same available choices...
4. Some of those players would not have worked at EFC any better than the ones we got (e.g. Fev would prob only have got games when one of Lloyd/Lucas were out...)

Finally, I reckon people are a bit harsh on Ted Richards. For mine, he has come of age in Sydney where he continually plays in one position and knows his role in the side...Sheeds screwed him over by constantly moving him around and dropping him every other game...

[Windy_Hill]

Easy to criticise our drafting history but seriously, who has done a better job????

I think the law of averages will show a similar output at most other clubs

[Boyler_Room]

I understand what you are trying to say by putting up the missed picks, however, a couple of points:

1. When drafted, many kids have potential (only ours don't seem to fulfill it...)
2. When drafted, it is not to be known who is going to be a star and who will fall by the wayside (hindsight shows that most of ours have fallen...)
3. Apart from a couple of picks, you can't say who was picked before our second choice cause after our first pick, we didn't have the same available choices...
4. Some of those players would not have worked at EFC any better than the ones we got (e.g. Fev would prob only have got games when one of Lloyd/Lucas were out...)

Finally, I reckon people are a bit harsh on Ted Richards. For mine, he has come of age in Sydney where he continually plays in one position and knows his role in the side...Sheeds screwed him over by constantly moving him around and dropping him every other game...

Tom asked for someone to post who we could have picked up, which Robbie has done. By posting who was picked up before our second choice, it shows who we could have picked up with our first choice. We skipped over a lot of good players in favour of duds and project players. Just look at the James Davies debacle.

[Crazyman]

I understand what you are trying to say by putting up the missed picks, however, a couple of points:

1. When drafted, many kids have potential (only ours don't seem to fulfill it...)
2. When drafted, it is not to be known who is going to be a star and who will fall by the wayside (hindsight shows that most of ours have fallen...)
3. Apart from a couple of picks, you can't say who was picked before our second choice cause after our first pick, we didn't have the same available choices...
4. Some of those players would not have worked at EFC any better than the ones we got (e.g. Fev would prob only have got games when one of Lloyd/Lucas were out...)

Finally, I reckon people are a bit harsh on Ted Richards. For mine, he has come of age in Sydney where he continually plays in one position and knows his role in the side...Sheeds screwed him over by constantly moving him around and dropping him every other game...

Tom asked for someone to post who we could have picked up, which Robbie has done. By posting who was picked up before our second choice, it shows who we could have picked up with our first choice. We skipped over a lot of good players in favour of duds and project players. Just look at the James Davies debacle.

Fair enough

[ealesy]

Just look at the James Davies debacle.

It is hard to believe we were investigated for possible draft tampering over that selection. Maybe the took one look at the end result and thought we had been punished enough?

[robbie67]

Easy to criticise our drafting history but seriously, who has done a better job????I think the law of averages will show a similar output at most other clubs

Everyone has done a better job than us. Even Melbourne, Richmond, Freo have drafted better players. It's all there in plain black and white.

God, it just amazes me how much people dont want to believe we fcked this up time and time again, even with the evidnece staring you right in the face.

[tom9779]

Lucas/Lloyd/Fevola



skipping on Daniel Kerr hurts

When Kerr was drafted, I don't think many melbourne scouts knew how good some west australian talent is.

[tom9779]

Easy to criticise our drafting history but seriously, who has done a better job????I think the law of averages will show a similar output at most other clubs

Everyone has done a better job than us. Even Melbourne, Richmond, Freo have drafted better players. It's all there in plain black and white.

God, it just amazes me how much people dont want to believe we fcked this up time and time again, even with the evidnece staring you right in the face.

I think Essendon are a little obsessed with height before ability.

You look at our in hindsight bad decisions, they are all relatively big men. We have consistently tried to recruit 190cm+ footballers.

Some of the guys you mention are all tall: Henno, Richards, Bradley...

heck we were even at it again last year. I bet you the rationale to pick Myers over Palmer was height.(this is not to say Myers won't be a gun compared to Palmer...its too early to say)

Of all those guys you mentioned, there are a couple of gems in there. I think however like Windy is that most clubs would be a bit hit and miss.

We don't seem to have that 10 year champion in our bunch of 23-26 year olds other than Hille and McVeigh. And both players really are only blossoming now.

I do think that guys like Winderlich, Watson and Stanton have more in them than they have shown this year....we gotta get a more consistent run at it re injuries.

[Sismis]

Yeah I agree we have a lack of good 23-26 year olds, but shit, I do not think we had the high draft picks to blow.

Why doesn't someone make a list of players we could have drafted? ie someone can't because that list would be pretty shallow.

I think we stuffed up about 2 first rounders.(the guy we took in 01 and bradley in 2003).

Here is 98 to 03 for you. Seeing that's what we really are talking about.

98 taken after Rama, but before Henno = Brady Rawlings, Brett Burton, David Wojinski.
98 taken after Henno = Steven Baker, Tyson Stengline, Craig Bolton, Brendon Fevola, Heath Scotland, Andrew Embley.
99 Suspended from first two rounds due to salary cap penalties.
00 taken after James Davies, but before Ted Richards = Daniel Kerr, Richard Hadley, Drew Petrie, Luke Ablett, Mark Coughlan.
00 taken after Ted Richards = Jamie Charman, Adam McPhee, Mark Williams, Josh Hunt, Domenic Cassisi, Amon Buchanan, Chris Newman, Daniel Cross, Graham Johncock.
01 taken after Shane Harvey, but before Joel Reynolds = Jason Gram, Matt Maguire, Steve Johnson.
01 after Joel Reynolds = Campbell Brown, David Rodan, Sam Mitchell, Leigh Montagna, Ashley Hanson, Paul Medhurst, Dane Swan, Adam Schneider.
02 taken after Laycock/Winderlich, but before Walsh/Cartledge = Jay Schulz, Byron Schammer, Troy Selwood, Will Minson, Tom Lonergan, Jared Rivers.
02 taken after Walsh/Cartledge = Daniel Merrett, Luke Jericho, Brent Staker, Leigh Fisher, Adam Selwood, Ryan Crowley, Nick Malceski.
03 taken after Kepler Bradley, but before Brent Stanton = Raph Clarke, Riley Dunn, Beau Waters.

Without doubt, we have fcked up time and time again, and not just fcked up, but fcked up ROYALLY!!

Here is 08 team what could have been.

F Davey Lloyd Burton
HF S Johnson Lucas Medhurst
C McVeigh Kerr Montagna
HB Johncock Maguire C Bolton
B Ryder Fletcher Brown
Fol Hille Mitchell A Selwood
Int Charman Myers Newman Embley

I know that is relying on getting most of them right, which is something no club manages, but imagine how much better we would be if we only got 33% of those right?

Blah, blah, yawn. the time machine drafter. Almost every one of those players you mention, were also passed over at least once by the team that got them as well as quite a few other clubs.

Funny how you never hear this when we actually draft the players. You've been around a while Rob, please tell me how many of these players you bagged when we drafted them.

The draft system itself promotes an up and down cycle, when are you going to realise that we are going though ours?

[pevfan]

To me it all adds up to the recruitment team, led by Sheedy, being very poor judges of horse flesh. Tom9779 got it right when he said Essendon (read Sheedy) have been obsessed by talls. I can remember making this point (probably ad-nausium) year after year under the Sheedy reign. When I think back to the Sheedy "project" players that we clung onto year in year out... I won't name them here, you all know who I mean. Add to that ,the umpteen recycled duds and I'll make an exception here by naming just one... TY Zantuck, who for some strange reason Sheedy bent over backwards to secure ) that we wasted the clubs time and energies (not to mention $) on...again put that down to Sheedy's surprisingly poor judgement of horse flesh.

But what really irks me is the number of promising and potentially (hate that word) good players that we HAVE drafted that just simply have never taken the next step, indeed many of whom have gone backwards.(again you all know whoI'm talking about...indeed I could be talkin about the who f***'n side save for a couple...AND I MEAN ONLY A COUPLE) Is it that these players simply weren't as good as we all thought they were going to be or is it a problem in the system out there at Windy Hill e.g. Hamquinn and his team, coaching methods or is it something in the water...I'm damned if I know, but it's a malaise that doesn't seem to have afflicted other sides to the same degree...hell even Melbourne are travelling better than we are despite only 1 win.The Dees 'l do us whem we play them cos I just can't see where our next win is gonna come from.

[jimmyc1985]

Everyone has done a better job than us. Even Melbourne, Richmond, Freo have drafted better players. It's all there in plain black and white.

Not sure about Melbourne and Freo's drafting, but i've had a look at Richmond's draft history over the last decade or so in detail before and i came to the conclusion that they're probably slightly worse than us. Only just, though. Man they've had some absolute stinkers.

[robbie67]

I know that is relying on getting most of them right, which is something no club manages, but imagine how much better we would be if we only got 33% of those right?

Blah, blah, yawn. the time machine drafter. Almost every one of those players you mention, were also passed over at least once by the team that got them as well as quite a few other clubs.

Funny how you never hear this when we actually draft the players. You've been around a while Rob, please tell me how many of these players you bagged when we drafted them.
The draft system itself promotes an up and down cycle, when are you going to realise that we are going though ours?[/quote]

You really are an absolute fool arent you Sismis? How the f*** could I bag any of them before even seeing them play? That has to be one of the stupidist things you have ever said. The reason I am using the years above is that these guys have had a fair of amount of time to prove the draft pick right or not. Should I bag David Myers and Tayte Pears now, or should I at least wait 4 or 5 years to see if they can play or not?

Dont start carrying on about cycles and how we are going through ours now. Brisbane, Port, and Collingwood all played in Grand Finals at least 2 years after we last played in one, and their young players that they have drafted in the years that I have mentioned crap all over ours. But dont worry Sismis, you are always quick to find a myriad of excuses for anyone wearing red and black, and while their is a certain charm about your always unbridled optomism, reality over position on the ladder over the last 4 years, and how long we expect to be where we are for a while yet, wont deter you from backing us for the flag next year.

Anybody who thinks we didnt f*** these drafts up lives in la la land.

[robbie67]

Everyone has done a better job than us. Even Melbourne, Richmond, Freo have drafted better players. It's all there in plain black and white.

Not sure about Melbourne and Freo's drafting, but i've had a look at Richmond's draft history over the last decade or so in detail before and i came to the conclusion that they're probably slightly worse than us. Only just, though. Man they've had some absolute stinkers.

Chris Newman a good player. They let Rodan go. If Coughlan ever gets back from injury they are a fair way in front of us in those years.

[jimmyc1985]

Everyone has done a better job than us. Even Melbourne, Richmond, Freo have drafted better players. It's all there in plain black and white.

Not sure about Melbourne and Freo's drafting, but i've had a look at Richmond's draft history over the last decade or so in detail before and i came to the conclusion that they're probably slightly worse than us. Only just, though. Man they've had some absolute stinkers.

Chris Newman a good player. They let Rodan go. If Coughlan ever gets back from injury they are a fair way in front of us in those years.

Chris Newman is very underrated. They've got a bit of value off the rookie list in Foley and King (not as good as Foley, but still ok), but their ability to f*** up picks inside the top 10 is primarily what i hang my hat on when i say they've done worse than us. Jarrad Oakley Nicholls is a much worse player in a better draft than Kepler; took Deledio (good player, but i'd prefer Griffen) and Tambling over Griffen and Franklin; traded away picks in 2001, aka best draft ever, and got rid of Rodan anyway; Kayne Pettifer instead of S Burgoyne/S Thompson/Kerr/K Cornes etc; Fiora over Pavlich; probably got unlucky with Ottens due to injury.

Looks like they've finally got one right in Cotchin though.

[Sismis]

I know that is relying on getting most of them right, which is something no club manages, but imagine how much better we would be if we only got 33% of those right?

Blah, blah, yawn. the time machine drafter. Almost every one of those players you mention, were also passed over at least once by the team that got them as well as quite a few other clubs.

Funny how you never hear this when we actually draft the players. You've been around a while Rob, please tell me how many of these players you bagged when we drafted them.
The draft system itself promotes an up and down cycle, when are you going to realise that we are going though ours?

You really are an absolute fool arent you Sismis? How the f*** could I bag any of them before even seeing them play? That has to be one of the stupidist things you have ever said. The reason I am using the years above is that these guys have had a fair of amount of time to prove the draft pick right or not. Should I bag David Myers and Tayte Pears now, or should I at least wait 4 or 5 years to see if they can play or not?

Dont start carrying on about cycles and how we are going through ours now. Brisbane, Port, and Collingwood all played in Grand Finals at least 2 years after we last played in one, and their young players that they have drafted in the years that I have mentioned crap all over ours. But dont worry Sismis, you are always quick to find a myriad of excuses for anyone wearing red and black, and while their is a certain charm about your always unbridled optomism, reality over position on the ladder over the last 4 years, and how long we expect to be where we are for a while yet, wont deter you from backing us for the flag next year.

Anybody who thinks we didnt f*** these drafts up lives in la la land.[/quote]Exactly, every year we seem to draft well according to the stats, but we never seem to be able to get the players to take the next step. I just don't think drafting is our problem.

With the exception of Geelong the top vic sides are dominated by superstars they have picked up with top 5 picks. Hawks and the Dogs prime examples.

As for the stoopidest thing i've ever said i take exception to that, you must remember the reynolds days?????!!!!!

You are right about Port and Brisbane though, these teams are far and away the best recruiters in the league. I've been saying for years we should be throwning money at their recruiters.

BTW the veiw from La la land is actually quite good, even if you have to use binoculars to see it.