Bombertalk

Shit, I forgot Hird coached us through 2005-2010.

Crazyman wrote:Recycled players like Cupido, Allen & Camporeale - in the twighlight of their playing careers when we were never a realistic chance to win the flag

Cupido was 23 when we got him and kicked 35-odd goals in his first year with us.

j-mac31 wrote:

Crazyman wrote:Recycled players like Cupido, Allen & Camporeale - in the twighlight of their playing careers when we were never a realistic chance to win the flag

Cupido was 23 when we got him and kicked 35-odd goals in his first year with us.

Be that as it may, he came with issues. If it was Ablett, Selwood, Dangerfield different. Young does not exclude recycled...

I have problem with recruiting Cupido, the guy was a freak of a player. Well worth the risk in my mind, just a shame it didn't work out.

Is Hird Overseeing? I think he is but he may be over compensating for the players because of the crisis. We don't know what goes on behind the walls and what's keep in house. In the same way that players go into survival mode and play for themselves and not for the team (I don't know I'm guessing) maybe, Hird doesn't want to be the one to push them over the edge. Wherever their edge point is and we all have one?

I believe the players have access to AFL approved Counsellors and Psychologists. I wonder who pays for this? Surely it would come under Worker Comp? Lets face it as in any trade there are some very good tradies out there and some very ordinary ones, likewise with Counsellors and Psychologists and some who practice McDonalds AMA style services, in and out, next please.

Ignoring the ridiculous comparison between the eras. Let's look at how long it takes to build a grandfinal team. This is based on the team longest drought since we last played in one. Ignores new teams and tigers and dogs.

Port Adelaide 5 years Draft concessions including stripping us of Wanaga
Collingwood 7 years 1 year of pre 2006 priority picks, Thomas
Sydney 9 years Extra cap which they still have
West Coast 12 years Only one priority pick which happened to be Judd
Geelong 12 years No priority picks
Stkilda 12 years 2 years of pre 2006, Reiwoldt
Essendon 13 years 1 year 2006 Gumbleton
Melbourne 14 years tankedy tank tanks
Brisbane Lions 15 years Based conservatively on the entry of the Brisbane bears. Draft concessions and extra salary cap to help them along.
Carlton 15 years Lost 2 got 2 more
North Melbourne 15 years No priority picks
Adelaide 16 years No Priority picks
Hawthorn 17 years 2 years of pre 2006 priority picks, Roughead
Fremantle 18 years Makes our drafting look spectacular

Sismis wrote:Ignoring the ridiculous comparison between the eras. Let's look at how long it takes to build a grandfinal team. This is based on the team longest drought since we last played in one. Ignores new teams and tigers and dogs.

Port Adelaide 5 years Draft concessions including stripping us of Wanaga
Collingwood 7 years 1 year of pre 2006 priority picks, Thomas
Sydney 9 years Extra cap which they still have
West Coast 12 years Only one priority pick which happened to be Judd
Geelong 12 years No priority picks
Stkilda 12 years 2 years of pre 2006, Reiwoldt
Essendon 13 years 1 year 2006 Gumbleton
Melbourne 14 years tankedy tank tanks
Brisbane Lions 15 years Based conservatively on the entry of the Brisbane bears. Draft concessions and extra salary cap to help them along.
Carlton 15 years Lost 2 got 2 more
North Melbourne 15 years No priority picks
Adelaide 16 years No Priority picks
Hawthorn 17 years 2 years of pre 2006 priority picks, Roughead
Fremantle 18 years Makes our drafting look spectacular

Oh dear, I might be looking down/up from upstairs or down stairs.

Sismis wrote:Ignoring the ridiculous comparison between the eras. Let's look at how long it takes to build a grandfinal team.

Indeed.

And, as I was getting at with my first comment above, the end of the Sheedy and then the Knights era were worse than what Hird's presided over so far.

bomberdonnie wrote:I have problem with recruiting Cupido, the guy was a freak of a player. Well worth the risk in my mind, just a shame it didn't work out.

I think you mean "no problem".

But that's exactly how I saw it and as I said above, his first year with us was good.

j-mac31 wrote:

Sismis wrote:Ignoring the ridiculous comparison between the eras. Let's look at how long it takes to build a grandfinal team.

Indeed.

And, as I was getting at with my first comment above, the end of the Sheedy and then the Knights era were worse than what Hird's presided over so far.

People seem to have completely forgotten where we were when Hird arrived.

j-mac31 wrote:

bomberdonnie wrote:I have problem with recruiting Cupido, the guy was a freak of a player. Well worth the risk in my mind, just a shame it didn't work out.

I think you mean "no problem". .

Correct!

bomberdonnie wrote:We won't make a grand final for 10 years, maybe longer.

there is.nothing to suggest the Essendon culture has fallen into such a hole.

My concern with Hird is that he might think he can turn every player into one as good as he was. Champions rarely make good teachers other than by example.

We have a good nucleus of guys that are look like good 10 year players. Hooker, Hurley, Heppell, Zmerrett, Daniher all convince me. A few others as Bomber said 'can play'.

Gwilt and Cooney were also mistakes as he has said too.

Edwards performance over the weekend highlights that. And Steinberg or Pears should be taking Fletcher's spot when he's resting. Not Gwilt whose basically almost finished. Certainly not the future. Or even Carlisle back.

little_ripper wrote:Steinberg or Pears should be taking Fletcher's spot when he's resting. Not Gwilt whose basically almost finished. Certainly not the future. Or even Carlisle back.

I'm really trying hard to not be negative, but Steinberg is never going to be anything more than a barely serviceable defender, and while I loved Tayte when he was fully fit and firing, it doesn't look like he is ever going to be again. It's rose coloured assessments of the weaker half of our list like yours above that has led to a lot of the trouble we're in now.

F111 wrote:I see a spot for Steinberg where Ambrose is. He's spent some time at both ends.

You could definitely add that to the list of things that we'd need to try fairly urgently to see if it's worthwhile. I'm not very confident. If Joe and Jake aren't getting it done, Ariel's definitely not going to.

Gyoza wrote:

F111 wrote:I see a spot for Steinberg where Ambrose is. He's spent some time at both ends.

You could definitely add that to the list of things that we'd need to try fairly urgently to see if it's worthwhile. I'm not very confident. If Joe and Jake aren't getting it done, Ariel's definitely not going to.

f***, if he kicks even one goal, he will have improved our forward line...

Crazyman wrote:

Gyoza wrote:

F111 wrote:I see a spot for Steinberg where Ambrose is. He's spent some time at both ends.

You could definitely add that to the list of things that we'd need to try fairly urgently to see if it's worthwhile. I'm not very confident. If Joe and Jake aren't getting it done, Ariel's definitely not going to.

f***, if he kicks even one goal, he will have improved our forward line...

Yeah - granted - but I think we can look elsewhere for a Messiah or even a temporary fix.

If the answer to the question is Steinberg and Pears - we clearly need to think long and hard about framing the question.

We have spent the whole season to date getting games into JD. It is now apparent that we will not get a return on this investment for at least another year. Which begs the question, do we still keep pumping games into him with an expected minimal return, or try something different. Joey is not solely to blame for the completely dysfunctional forward line, but he is a contributor.

Something has to change and for the sake of the next few games and the collective sanity of the supporters, let's try Hooksey up forward or at least someone who can take a pack mark. Let's try Goodard permanently forward as well. Licha should be ready for the Dawks so bang him up there as well. Why not even Pears as another marking forward. The guy has languished either on the injured list or in the twos it seems forever, So why not give him a couple of games and see how he goes. The season is basically f***** so how about a bit of thinking from left field at least to give us a reason to turn up.

Hear Hear Rocky. We must DO something as opposed to trying the same old thing at the moment which is completely dysfunctional.

rockhole wrote:We have spent the whole season to date getting games into JD. It is now apparent that we will not get a return on this investment for at least another year. Which begs the question, do we still keep pumping games into him with an expected minimal return, or try something different. Joey is not solely to blame for the completely dysfunctional forward line, but he is a contributor.

Something has to change and for the sake of the next few games and the collective sanity of the supporters, let's try Hooksey up forward or at least someone who can take a pack mark. Let's try Goodard permanently forward as well. Licha should be ready for the Dawks so bang him up there as well. Why not even Pears as another marking forward. The guy has languished either on the injured list or in the twos it seems forever, So why not give him a couple of games and see how he goes. The season is basically f***** so how about a bit of thinking from left field at least to give us a reason to turn up.

JD is about the only good thing about our forward line this year. He gets a free pass because he is a young player and as a tall will take that extra time to develop.

Hooker up forward is stupid, he is a traditional defender.
Goddard could work and did so at times last season.
Licha has been playing in the backline in the 2's. A strange decision considering our lack of experience up forward at the moment. So we can't go there yet.
Pears is shot, playing at full forward I think he might of kicked an aggregate of 2 goals in the last couple of weeks when we have won by 15 goals.

I would swap Carlisle and Hurley again. I know Hurley is in the form of his career playing in defence but Carlisle seems lost up forward and he is just as good as a defender. Hurley is a solid forward with experience in that part of the ground and who knows he could be even better now. I would also drop Ambrose for McKernan. Ambroses 5 goals in half a season for a tall forward is pathetic. McKernan can pinch hit in the ruck too as a relief for Bellchambers/Giles. The final piece of the puzzle is to drop Melksham for anyone. Has had a month of good footy in over 100 games. He makes our team worse.