f*** off..c***

[Sismis]

It's looking up now:

Kenny - you're got to find something within the scheme to permit what has happened

At least one of the judges is not satisfied with the "they went along with it so it's OK" reasonign ASADA has used.

[BenDoolan]

Sack Hird.

[Gyoza]

It's looking up now:

Kenny - you're got to find something within the scheme to permit what has happened

At least one of the judges is not satisfied with the "they went along with it so it's OK" reasonign ASADA has used.

Hmm pretty cautious about reading anything into any supportive sounding comments after Middleton spent three days sounding like he was loving our arguments and then smashed it to pieces.

[mdso]

Legal jargonese gobbledook - looking at what's happening simply - from the first moment that David Evans with or without the Board, decided the club should self report, because it would look better if we cooperated and it would be o.k. The EFC began a process of not protesting or objecting. (It doesn't matter what we thought or what we'd been told, we should have protested and objected, like Doctor Reid and like Dank.) We didn't.

The law is ambiguous and contradictory. Because we did not object or protest, we unknowingly condoned whatever methods both the AFL and ASADA used, so therefore we gave consent. The players and employees could have NOT answered the questions or could NOT have given testimony. The AFL then had the power, to be stand down any player/employee. Any contracted AFL person, signs away their rights to silence in an investigation. Our players had been briefed and had legal counsel present and they did what they were told. Right or wrong, it seems we've been played and god help everyone if this sort of legal intimidation is deemed lawful and normalized.

Actually, the AFL and ASADA legal teams were a lot smarter and more familiar with sliding the law sideways into the grey areas, than the silks representing us are. In other words, we were too clean and NOT creatively bent enough. And, we have done the same thing through out this whole saga, for example last August, 2013, by bending over again and again. We were led to believe or told that it would all be over and we could get back to playing footy. (Apparently, it doesn't matter what we were told, it is irrelevant in this case. I guess the same goes for ASADA telling some of our players with pregnant wives, they could end up with children with deformities. To entice them to testify.) So, it seems not knowing what the rules are, is just too bad, ignorance is NO excuse and its too late to yell after the fact.) Unfortunately, we didn't know that until now. Hindsight!

I hope we can get some runs on the board and the three judges can find a way to shed some light for us toward the end of the tunnel. The EFC and the Hird Family have spend a lot of money fighting for a principal, when in fact the principals don't seem to matter. If this judgement goes against us, ASADA will get real cocky and imagine the crap from the media. We can only hope and pray for a good result.....................and get ready for the next round.

[Sismis]

It's looking up now:

Kenny - you're got to find something within the scheme to permit what has happened

At least one of the judges is not satisfied with the "they went along with it so it's OK" reasonign ASADA has used.

Hmm pretty cautious about reading anything into any supportive sounding comments after Middleton spent three days sounding like he was loving our arguments and then smashed it to pieces.

Totally agree. One of the other judges seemed to like getting into Hird's council when he was delivering. It is going to come down to a judgement call again, which could go either way.

One very interesting thing, Hird's QC stated that they were not trying to stop the AFL using any of the evidence. I wonder if that is the intent of this action? Cut ASADA out? Basically have it heard as a straight tribunal matter?

[mdso]

The thing about going to court, we all ought to remember. At the end of the case, the silks walk away counting the folding stuff, win or lose it doesn't really matter to them their job is over. Their clients, on the other hand, are left to deal with the consequences of the flotsam and jetsam spill over. Often nothing is resolved satisfactorily and the cost is enormous and its much more than financial.

More often than not, if one is seeking justice it won't be found in a court of law. However and whatever your just is, its measured and happens in your head and heart. The courts are for people who cannot mediate with each other and for people who break the laws of the land. Ambiguous, contradictory rules and grey areas which cannot account for emotional pain and suffering. Everything has to fit into the rules and legislation is neatly labelled this or that. Having spent a bit of time in the court system for work, I have little faith in the system but have to agree society needs something and that something is better than nothing. Working for the Department of Justice did not inspire me in the system.

Imagine what society would be like without the Law. All we have to do is look at major catastrophes which have happened around the world, within a week of the break down of law and order and other instrumentalities, some people are looting, stealing and fighting each other for the spoils. At any time, we are never far from breaking point and sliding backwards into devolution or survival mode where the fittest and the strongest rule.

That's my take on the state of affairs, its certainly not everyone's.

[BenDoolan]

Imagine what society would be like without the Law. All we have to do is look at major catastrophes which have happened around the world, within a week of the break down of law and order and other instrumentalities, some people are looting, stealing and fighting each other for the spoils. At any time, we are never far from breaking point and sliding backwards into devolution or survival mode where the fittest and the strongest rule.

Yep, that's the law of the jungle.

The law of the courts, it's a matter of survival of the richest.

[Sismis]

The legal system is a bit bizarre and seems to be deliberately over complicated to perpetuate the livelihoods of those involved. But you have to think of what it is designed to do and that is provide both specific instructions of what you cannot do, a catch-all for what you shouldn't do and provide some sort of punishment/compensation if someone does. That's a pretty massive brief. While it is certainly clear that (like everything else) the rich have more access to the resources required to use it, we (Australia) have one of the most accessible systems.

In my own experience, I have utilized both the AAT (going up against the ATO!) and VCAT and been reasonably successful in both without any use of lawyers. In VCAT they are actually excluded!

[BenDoolan]

Stick a fckn fork in it

[mdso]

Delving through all this I got to wondering : what on earth is useful about Government legislation such as OHS, if employers like the AFL don't follow it and make their own rules and over ride it with another Government department. Does Government simply create departments to write up legislation, supposedly to protect people in the workplace and outside it. To make society feel safer but in actual fact it is all an illusion.

Take our situation, the AFL breached their OHS obligations and investigated the EFC with ASADA when they themselves had Governance issues and ignored OHS issues in their own workplace. If two thirds of the completion had supplements programs running then; they sacrifice one and the others fall naturally into line. No other team with any sense would want to put themselves what we've been through for the past two years.

The AFL run the competition, they make and break the rules, ask Sydney they now know how it works, the AFL are virtually untouchable. We have no choice but to knuckle under and cop it sweet or piss off. F--- the AFL and F ...ASADA and I can we can safely say, I think we've been fkd over royally.

[BenDoolan]

Delving through all this I got to wondering : what on earth is useful about Government legislation such as OHS, if employers like the AFL don't follow it and make their own rules and over ride it with another Government department. Does Government simply create departments to write up legislation, supposedly to protect people in the workplace and outside it. To make society feel safer but in actual fact it is all an illusion.

Take our situation, the AFL breached their OHS obligations and investigated the EFC with ASADA when they themselves had Governance issues and ignored OHS issues in their own workplace. If two thirds of the completion had supplements programs running then; they sacrifice one and the others fall naturally into line. No other team with any sense would want to put themselves what we've been through for the past two years.

The AFL run the competition, they make and break the rules, ask Sydney they now know how it works, the AFL are virtually untouchable. We have no choice but to knuckle under and cop it sweet or piss off. F--- the AFL and F ...ASADA and I can we can safely say, I think we've been fkd over royally.

What sections of the OHS Act were breached

It's just a tinfoil hat argument.

[tonysoprano]

A critique analysis from Bruce Francis to Greg Baum

CC: @Melbchief @rohan_connolly @martinj_blake @ringsau @RMHogg @Robbo_heraldsun @heraldsunmick @heraldsunsport @heraldsun

I had a very sheltered upbringing. I can’t recall my parents ever raising their voices and I can’t recall raising my voice at anyone – ever. But I have had enough. Today’s article by @GregBaum is the last straw. I’m past caring whether you think I’m a nutter, and I’m long past caring about being polite and measured in articulating my lack of respect for the media. If I have to embarrass myself and get down in the gutter with the media, so be it. As hard as I have tried, I just don’t understand why most members of the media have trashed their reputations and the reputation of the profession.

Baum’s opening line today in the Age was “Bottom line, James Hird is trying to get off on an elaborate technicality” was a major misrepresentation.

Get off what? Baum was implying that Hird has been charged with something by someone. I must have missed that one. To my knowledge Hird hasn’t been charged with anything and doesn’t have to defend himself. Baum is talking garbage, again, but please don’t attack him because when I challenged him he said there was no point in us communicating with each other. As a parting gesture he spread a malicious lie about me to about thirty members of the media.
My understanding is 34 Essendon players are accused of being administered the WADA banned substance Thymosin Beta-4. Surely, one or two of you are smart enough to understand that after all the lies and kuk of the last 21 months, the story should now be centred around whether ASADA can prove the Essendon players were administered Thymosin Beta-4. That’s what you should be writing about.
The AFL Tribunal has a very simple job and it should take five minutes. For ASADA to win it has to prove someone supplied Dank with Thymosin Beta-4 and ASADA has to prove Dank administered Thymosin Beta-4. Thus, there are only three parties involved:
1. Thirty-four Essendon players, all of whom will deny being administered Thymosin Beta-4.
2. Nima Alavi, who is on record as saying he has no idea whether he gave Dank Thymosin Alpha 1, Thymomodulin, Thymosin Beta-4 or an unknown substance. Furthermore, he is on record as saying he wouldn’t trust anything emanating from China.
3. Stephen Dank, who claims he didn’t administer Thymosin Beta-4. Even if Dank believed Thymosin Beta-4 was the greatest substance ever created, and even if Dank drew up a schedule to administer Thymosin Beta-4, there is no proof he administered Thymosin Beta-4 because there is no evidence he was ever supplied with Thymosin Beta-4 by Alavi or anyone else.
If you have proof of someone supplying Thymosin Beta-4 I’d like to see it. It’s time to put up or shut up.
Not content to misrepresent Hird’s situation in his first line, Baum decided to make fool of himself with his last sentence: ‘But the word "drugs" was heard only once all day, and "supplements" not at all, and at the adjournment, we were a few hours closer to knowing Hird's fate, but none at all to knowing what the hell did happen at Essendon.’
After all this time I suspect a student on work experience would know what the hell happened at Essendon. As a peace offering for Baum, I shall give him a bullet point summary of what we know happened at Essendon. The unknowns will never be known because of the failure of the AFL to do its job; because of the failure of the Essendon board; because of the failure of the Essendon players to comply with clause 7.4 of the AFL’s Anti-Doping Code and their failure to comply with all obligations under clause 5.3 (c); because of the failure of Paul Hamilton to fulfil his responsibilities as general manager – football operations.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED

• May 2011 – David Evans, Ian Robson, Paul Hamilton, Danny Corcoran, James Hird and Mark Thompson agreed that Essendon had to adopt a more scientific approach to training and recovery. Hird stipulated that the supplements program had to be WADA compliant; no substances could be administered which could harm the players; and Dr Reid had the final say on what substances could be administered

• 19 October 2011 - Dr Reid informed the AFL that he had been marginalised and that the Essendon players may have been administered banned substances by Dean Robinson.

• 19 October 2011 – 1 February 2013 - the AFL did nothing, zilch, bugger all about Dr Reid’s phone call. The AFL failed to fulfil its obligations under clause 4.6 of the AFL’s anti-doping code.

• 20 October 2011 - Dr Reid admonished Robinson and reinforced the message that no substance was to be administered to the players without his permission

• 4 November 2011 – Dank commenced work at Essendon

• 12 January 2013 – Dr Reid discovered that Stephen Dank and or Robinson had administered substances without his permission. Dr Reid reported the matter to Hird who told Reid to report the matter to his department head and executive member Paul Hamilton

• About 13 January 2012 – Hamilton reported the matter to Ian Robson and admonished Robinson.

• 15 January 2012 - Robinson distributed new procedures for administering substances

• 18 January 2012 – Nima Alavi claims he supplied Dank with 26 clear unlabelled vials of an unknown substance. Dank claims he was only given 8 vials and claims they were all unusable.

• 2 February 2012 – Hamilton informed his staff – Robinson, Dr Reid, Dr De Morton and Dank - that all paperwork concerning supplements had to be sent to him

• Early February 2012 – The players were told about the new procedures concerning supplements and were told that they would be required to sign a Patient / Informed Consent and Confidentiality Agreement form. Within a few days the vast majority of players agreed to be administered four substances – one of which was Thymosin.

• Early February 2012, Robinson discussed the supplements program with Robson

• Unbeknown to Dr Reid, Hamilton and Hird, Robinson and or Dank administered supplements to the players which were not listed on the consent forms. ASADA subsequently cleared all substances except Thymosin, which it believed was the banned substance Thymosin Beta-4.

• Mid-May 2012 - Dr Reid discovered that players had received Cerebrolysin injections at HyperMED and complained to Thompson. Thompson warned Dank to cease his injection of players. Thompson described his chastising of Dank to have been a ‘seven out of 10’.

• May 2012 - Corcoran directed football administrator, Dean Wallis to create a data-base to record the players’ weekly supplementation, however, this did not occur until after 27 June 2012.

• June 2012 – Hird was told Dank had a vial of Hexarelin in his fridge and ordered him to get rid of it. Hird reported the matter to Hamilton. Thompson ripped into Dank 30 minutes after Hird had admonished him.

• 27 June 2012 – Wallis conducted a PowerPoint presentation for players at the Auditorium to advise that the club would forthwith be recording everything that is administered to a player orally, by injection and intravenously.

• July 2012 – Dr Reid, supported by Danny Corcoran and Hird asked Evans and Robson to terminate Robinson’s employment. Evans and Robson refused on the grounds that the club couldn’t afford the payout. The August board meeting endorsed Evans and Robson’s decision not to terminate Robinson.

• 29 July 2012 – Robinson sent Dank an SMS reminding him that he could not administer injections. In reply Dank stated, ‘I can use vitamin injections. The doc is happy with that. I need to fight for Cerebrolysin

• 21 August 2012 – Hamilton delivered the key findings of the club’s internal review into soft tissue injuries. Under the heading of ‘STOP’ were the following entries:
• [Stop] going for magic cures – Supplementation that is not medically based. Concerns with Tribulus, Creatine and IV injections. Robson headed the review.

• 4 September 2012 – Dank left Essendon

• 11 December 2012 – Dank, who had joined Melbourne, organised a meeting with two senior Melbourne people and Alavi to discuss the possibility of Alavi supplying supplements as part of a sponsorship.


To the media’s discredit it hasn’t mentioned most of the above events. It definitely hasn’t elaborated on the impossibility of ASADA proving its allegations. Sadly, it hasn’t even identified the various laws breached by Alavi and Charter and it hasn’t mentioned the possible penalties.

Bruce Francis

[mdso]

Delving through all this I got to wondering : what on earth is useful about Government legislation such as OHS, if employers like the AFL don't follow it and make their own rules and over ride it with another Government department. Does Government simply create departments to write up legislation, supposedly to protect people in the workplace and outside it. To make society feel safer but in actual fact it is all an illusion.

Take our situation, the AFL breached their OHS obligations and investigated the EFC with ASADA when they themselves had Governance issues and ignored OHS issues in their own workplace. If two thirds of the completion had supplements programs running then; they sacrifice one and the others fall naturally into line. No other team with any sense would want to put themselves what we've been through for the past two years.

The AFL run the competition, they make and break the rules, ask Sydney they now know how it works, the AFL are virtually untouchable. We have no choice but to knuckle under and cop it sweet or piss off. F--- the AFL and F ...ASADA and I can we can safely say, I think we've been fkd over royally.

What sections of the OHS Act were breached

It's just a tinfoil hat argument.

O.K. I've got my tin foil hat on. The AFL knew what was going on at the EFC before ASADA began investigating in Feb 2012 and did nothing. Even early on when Doctor Reid advised them of what he described as a possible breach of the WADA code, they did nothing and let it ride. So knowing this, teamed up with ASADA in a joint investigation and in doing so, failed to instigate their OHS obligations and a joint duty of care to the EFC staff and players. That is why they were reported to WorkCare, still waiting for the outcome of that investigation. The AFL were so busy being obliging to ASADA they completely ignored their own staff and players who may have been at risk. They also forgot to advise them they had no right to silence and that they had the right to protest and object. Huge conflict of interest. Shall I go on...........................................................................

[BenDoolan]

Delving through all this I got to wondering : what on earth is useful about Government legislation such as OHS, if employers like the AFL don't follow it and make their own rules and over ride it with another Government department. Does Government simply create departments to write up legislation, supposedly to protect people in the workplace and outside it. To make society feel safer but in actual fact it is all an illusion.

Take our situation, the AFL breached their OHS obligations and investigated the EFC with ASADA when they themselves had Governance issues and ignored OHS issues in their own workplace. If two thirds of the completion had supplements programs running then; they sacrifice one and the others fall naturally into line. No other team with any sense would want to put themselves what we've been through for the past two years.

The AFL run the competition, they make and break the rules, ask Sydney they now know how it works, the AFL are virtually untouchable. We have no choice but to knuckle under and cop it sweet or piss off. F--- the AFL and F ...ASADA and I can we can safely say, I think we've been fkd over royally.

What sections of the OHS Act were breached

It's just a tinfoil hat argument.

O.K. I've got my tin foil hat on. The AFL knew what was going on at the EFC before ASADA began investigating in Feb 2012 and did nothing. Even early on when Doctor Reid advised them of what he described as a possible breach of the WADA code, they did nothing and let it ride. So knowing this, teamed up with ASADA in a joint investigation and in doing so, failed to instigate their OHS obligations and a joint duty of care to the EFC staff and players. That is why they were reported to WorkCare, still waiting for the outcome of that investigation. The AFL were so busy being obliging to ASADA they completely ignored their own staff and players who may have been at risk. They also forgot to advise them they had no right to silence and that they had the right to protest and object. Huge conflict of interest. Shall I go on...........................................................................

Just because there is a possible breach of the WADA code, it doesn't mean there is a breach of the OHS Act.

And just because some scare mongerers suggest we may have jeopardised the health of our players, it doesn't mean EFC have not provided a safe workplace without risks to health. In fact, they may have enhanced their health!

[s'dreams]

Delving through all this I got to wondering : what on earth is useful about Government legislation such as OHS, if employers like the AFL don't follow it and make their own rules and over ride it with another Government department. Does Government simply create departments to write up legislation, supposedly to protect people in the workplace and outside it. To make society feel safer but in actual fact it is all an illusion.

Take our situation, the AFL breached their OHS obligations and investigated the EFC with ASADA when they themselves had Governance issues and ignored OHS issues in their own workplace. If two thirds of the completion had supplements programs running then; they sacrifice one and the others fall naturally into line. No other team with any sense would want to put themselves what we've been through for the past two years.

The AFL run the competition, they make and break the rules, ask Sydney they now know how it works, the AFL are virtually untouchable. We have no choice but to knuckle under and cop it sweet or piss off. F--- the AFL and F ...ASADA and I can we can safely say, I think we've been fkd over royally.

What sections of the OHS Act were breached

It's just a tinfoil hat argument.

O.K. I've got my tin foil hat on. The AFL knew what was going on at the EFC before ASADA began investigating in Feb 2012 and did nothing. Even early on when Doctor Reid advised them of what he described as a possible breach of the WADA code, they did nothing and let it ride. So knowing this, teamed up with ASADA in a joint investigation and in doing so, failed to instigate their OHS obligations and a joint duty of care to the EFC staff and players. That is why they were reported to WorkCare, still waiting for the outcome of that investigation. The AFL were so busy being obliging to ASADA they completely ignored their own staff and players who may have been at risk. They also forgot to advise them they had no right to silence and that they had the right to protest and object. Huge conflict of interest. Shall I go on...........................................................................

Just because there is a possible breach of the WADA code, it doesn't mean there is a breach of the OHS Act.

And just because some scare mongerers suggest we may have jeopardised the health of our players, it doesn't mean EFC have not provided a safe workplace without risks to health. In fact, they may have enhanced their health!

Agree with Ben


The argument that ASADA and the AFL were conducting their investigation under some sort of OH&S rationale is spurious.

ASADA has ABSOLUTELY no role in OH&S or provision of a safe workplace - its role is to detect and investigate potential and suspected drug cheats on behalf of WADA.

The Victorian WorkCover Authority is the organization that has statutory and legal authority in Victoria for OH&S compliance. It s has the authority to make unannounced workplace inspections, compel staff to make records nd documents available without subpoena and interview employees and management.

If the AFL or the ALFPA had concerns about the safety and potential risk of workplace activities, the should have reported it to WorkCover who would have been compelled to investigate. They did not.

s'd

[BenDoolan]

A critique analysis from Bruce Francis to Greg Baum

CC: @Melbchief @rohan_connolly @martinj_blake @ringsau @RMHogg @Robbo_heraldsun @heraldsunmick @heraldsunsport @heraldsun

I had a very sheltered upbringing. I can’t recall my parents ever raising their voices and I can’t recall raising my voice at anyone – ever. But I have had enough. Today’s article by @GregBaum is the last straw. I’m past caring whether you think I’m a nutter, and I’m long past caring about being polite and measured in articulating my lack of respect for the media. If I have to embarrass myself and get down in the gutter with the media, so be it. As hard as I have tried, I just don’t understand why most members of the media have trashed their reputations and the reputation of the profession.

Baum’s opening line today in the Age was “Bottom line, James Hird is trying to get off on an elaborate technicality” was a major misrepresentation.

Get off what? Baum was implying that Hird has been charged with something by someone. I must have missed that one. To my knowledge Hird hasn’t been charged with anything and doesn’t have to defend himself. Baum is talking garbage, again, but please don’t attack him because when I challenged him he said there was no point in us communicating with each other. As a parting gesture he spread a malicious lie about me to about thirty members of the media.
My understanding is 34 Essendon players are accused of being administered the WADA banned substance Thymosin Beta-4. Surely, one or two of you are smart enough to understand that after all the lies and kuk of the last 21 months, the story should now be centred around whether ASADA can prove the Essendon players were administered Thymosin Beta-4. That’s what you should be writing about.
The AFL Tribunal has a very simple job and it should take five minutes. For ASADA to win it has to prove someone supplied Dank with Thymosin Beta-4 and ASADA has to prove Dank administered Thymosin Beta-4. Thus, there are only three parties involved:
1. Thirty-four Essendon players, all of whom will deny being administered Thymosin Beta-4.
2. Nima Alavi, who is on record as saying he has no idea whether he gave Dank Thymosin Alpha 1, Thymomodulin, Thymosin Beta-4 or an unknown substance. Furthermore, he is on record as saying he wouldn’t trust anything emanating from China.
3. Stephen Dank, who claims he didn’t administer Thymosin Beta-4. Even if Dank believed Thymosin Beta-4 was the greatest substance ever created, and even if Dank drew up a schedule to administer Thymosin Beta-4, there is no proof he administered Thymosin Beta-4 because there is no evidence he was ever supplied with Thymosin Beta-4 by Alavi or anyone else.
If you have proof of someone supplying Thymosin Beta-4 I’d like to see it. It’s time to put up or shut up.
Not content to misrepresent Hird’s situation in his first line, Baum decided to make fool of himself with his last sentence: ‘But the word "drugs" was heard only once all day, and "supplements" not at all, and at the adjournment, we were a few hours closer to knowing Hird's fate, but none at all to knowing what the hell did happen at Essendon.’
After all this time I suspect a student on work experience would know what the hell happened at Essendon. As a peace offering for Baum, I shall give him a bullet point summary of what we know happened at Essendon. The unknowns will never be known because of the failure of the AFL to do its job; because of the failure of the Essendon board; because of the failure of the Essendon players to comply with clause 7.4 of the AFL’s Anti-Doping Code and their failure to comply with all obligations under clause 5.3 (c); because of the failure of Paul Hamilton to fulfil his responsibilities as general manager – football operations.

WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED

• May 2011 – David Evans, Ian Robson, Paul Hamilton, Danny Corcoran, James Hird and Mark Thompson agreed that Essendon had to adopt a more scientific approach to training and recovery. Hird stipulated that the supplements program had to be WADA compliant; no substances could be administered which could harm the players; and Dr Reid had the final say on what substances could be administered

• 19 October 2011 - Dr Reid informed the AFL that he had been marginalised and that the Essendon players may have been administered banned substances by Dean Robinson.

• 19 October 2011 – 1 February 2013 - the AFL did nothing, zilch, bugger all about Dr Reid’s phone call. The AFL failed to fulfil its obligations under clause 4.6 of the AFL’s anti-doping code.

• 20 October 2011 - Dr Reid admonished Robinson and reinforced the message that no substance was to be administered to the players without his permission

• 4 November 2011 – Dank commenced work at Essendon

• 12 January 2013 – Dr Reid discovered that Stephen Dank and or Robinson had administered substances without his permission. Dr Reid reported the matter to Hird who told Reid to report the matter to his department head and executive member Paul Hamilton

• About 13 January 2012 – Hamilton reported the matter to Ian Robson and admonished Robinson.

• 15 January 2012 - Robinson distributed new procedures for administering substances

• 18 January 2012 – Nima Alavi claims he supplied Dank with 26 clear unlabelled vials of an unknown substance. Dank claims he was only given 8 vials and claims they were all unusable.

• 2 February 2012 – Hamilton informed his staff – Robinson, Dr Reid, Dr De Morton and Dank - that all paperwork concerning supplements had to be sent to him

• Early February 2012 – The players were told about the new procedures concerning supplements and were told that they would be required to sign a Patient / Informed Consent and Confidentiality Agreement form. Within a few days the vast majority of players agreed to be administered four substances – one of which was Thymosin.

• Early February 2012, Robinson discussed the supplements program with Robson

• Unbeknown to Dr Reid, Hamilton and Hird, Robinson and or Dank administered supplements to the players which were not listed on the consent forms. ASADA subsequently cleared all substances except Thymosin, which it believed was the banned substance Thymosin Beta-4.

• Mid-May 2012 - Dr Reid discovered that players had received Cerebrolysin injections at HyperMED and complained to Thompson. Thompson warned Dank to cease his injection of players. Thompson described his chastising of Dank to have been a ‘seven out of 10’.

• May 2012 - Corcoran directed football administrator, Dean Wallis to create a data-base to record the players’ weekly supplementation, however, this did not occur until after 27 June 2012.

• June 2012 – Hird was told Dank had a vial of Hexarelin in his fridge and ordered him to get rid of it. Hird reported the matter to Hamilton. Thompson ripped into Dank 30 minutes after Hird had admonished him.

• 27 June 2012 – Wallis conducted a PowerPoint presentation for players at the Auditorium to advise that the club would forthwith be recording everything that is administered to a player orally, by injection and intravenously.

• July 2012 – Dr Reid, supported by Danny Corcoran and Hird asked Evans and Robson to terminate Robinson’s employment. Evans and Robson refused on the grounds that the club couldn’t afford the payout. The August board meeting endorsed Evans and Robson’s decision not to terminate Robinson.

• 29 July 2012 – Robinson sent Dank an SMS reminding him that he could not administer injections. In reply Dank stated, ‘I can use vitamin injections. The doc is happy with that. I need to fight for Cerebrolysin

• 21 August 2012 – Hamilton delivered the key findings of the club’s internal review into soft tissue injuries. Under the heading of ‘STOP’ were the following entries:
• [Stop] going for magic cures – Supplementation that is not medically based. Concerns with Tribulus, Creatine and IV injections. Robson headed the review.

• 4 September 2012 – Dank left Essendon

• 11 December 2012 – Dank, who had joined Melbourne, organised a meeting with two senior Melbourne people and Alavi to discuss the possibility of Alavi supplying supplements as part of a sponsorship.


To the media’s discredit it hasn’t mentioned most of the above events. It definitely hasn’t elaborated on the impossibility of ASADA proving its allegations. Sadly, it hasn’t even identified the various laws breached by Alavi and Charter and it hasn’t mentioned the possible penalties.

Bruce Francis

The fuggin media are just brain dead. Pure and simple. It couldn't possibly process or comprehend any of the talking mule's detailed points.

Perhaps Bruce should just save his time with lengthy explanations and just cut to the chase with these guys. A simple "Baum is nothing but a f****** dumb, imbecilic, simpleton" is all that needs to be said.

[mdso]

Delving through all this I got to wondering : what on earth is useful about Government legislation such as OHS, if employers like the AFL don't follow it and make their own rules and over ride it with another Government department. Does Government simply create departments to write up legislation, supposedly to protect people in the workplace and outside it. To make society feel safer but in actual fact it is all an illusion.

Take our situation, the AFL breached their OHS obligations and investigated the EFC with ASADA when they themselves had Governance issues and ignored OHS issues in their own workplace. If two thirds of the completion had supplements programs running then; they sacrifice one and the others fall naturally into line. No other team with any sense would want to put themselves what we've been through for the past two years.

The AFL run the competition, they make and break the rules, ask Sydney they now know how it works, the AFL are virtually untouchable. We have no choice but to knuckle under and cop it sweet or piss off. F--- the AFL and F ...ASADA and I can we can safely say, I think we've been fkd over royally.

What sections of the OHS Act were breached

It's just a tinfoil hat argument.

O.K. I've got my tin foil hat on. The AFL knew what was going on at the EFC before ASADA began investigating in Feb 2012 and did nothing. Even early on when Doctor Reid advised them of what he described as a possible breach of the WADA code, they did nothing and let it ride. So knowing this, teamed up with ASADA in a joint investigation and in doing so, failed to instigate their OHS obligations and a joint duty of care to the EFC staff and players. That is why they were reported to WorkCare, still waiting for the outcome of that investigation. The AFL were so busy being obliging to ASADA they completely ignored their own staff and players who may have been at risk. They also forgot to advise them they had no right to silence and that they had the right to protest and object. Huge conflict of interest. Shall I go on...........................................................................

Just because there is a possible breach of the WADA code, it doesn't mean there is a breach of the OHS Act.

And just because some scare mongerers suggest we may have jeopardised the health of our players, it doesn't mean EFC have not provided a safe workplace without risks to health. In fact, they may have enhanced their health![/quote



Ben, I am one of the people who truly believe we did not breach the WADA code. I am just saying the AFL's behaviour re: Governance and OHS is no better or worse than ours, they judge us on their own standards which are sadly lacking. My big beef is with the AFLPA who supposedly are there to advise and support the players. They have done a poor job indeed in terms of the players. I don't think the Coaches Association is much better.
Good thing we don't work for the AFL.

[mdso]

Delving through all this I got to wondering : what on earth is useful about Government legislation such as OHS, if employers like the AFL don't follow it and make their own rules and over ride it with another Government department. Does Government simply create departments to write up legislation, supposedly to protect people in the workplace and outside it. To make society feel safer but in actual fact it is all an illusion.

Take our situation, the AFL breached their OHS obligations and investigated the EFC with ASADA when they themselves had Governance issues and ignored OHS issues in their own workplace. If two thirds of the completion had supplements programs running then; they sacrifice one and the others fall naturally into line. No other team with any sense would want to put themselves what we've been through for the past two years.

The AFL run the competition, they make and break the rules, ask Sydney they now know how it works, the AFL are virtually untouchable. We have no choice but to knuckle under and cop it sweet or piss off. F--- the AFL and F ...ASADA and I can we can safely say, I think we've been fkd over royally.

What sections of the OHS Act were breached

It's just a tinfoil hat argument.

O.K. I've got my tin foil hat on. The AFL knew what was going on at the EFC before ASADA began investigating in Feb 2012 and did nothing. Even early on when Doctor Reid advised them of what he described as a possible breach of the WADA code, they did nothing and let it ride. So knowing this, teamed up with ASADA in a joint investigation and in doing so, failed to instigate their OHS obligations and a joint duty of care to the EFC staff and players. That is why they were reported to WorkCare, still waiting for the outcome of that investigation. The AFL were so busy being obliging to ASADA they completely ignored their own staff and players who may have been at risk. They also forgot to advise them they had no right to silence and that they had the right to protest and object. Huge conflict of interest. Shall I go on...........................................................................

Just because there is a possible breach of the WADA code, it doesn't mean there is a breach of the OHS Act.

And just because some scare mongerers suggest we may have jeopardised the health of our players, it doesn't mean EFC have not provided a safe workplace without risks to health. In fact, they may have enhanced their health!

Agree with Ben


The argument that ASADA and the AFL were conducting their investigation under some sort of OH&S rationale is spurious.

ASADA has ABSOLUTELY no role in OH&S or provision of a safe workplace - its role is to detect and investigate potential and suspected drug cheats on behalf of WADA.

The Victorian WorkCover Authority is the organization that has statutory and legal authority in Victoria for OH&S compliance. It s has the authority to make unannounced workplace inspections, compel staff to make records nd documents available without subpoena and interview employees and management.

If the AFL or the ALFPA had concerns about the safety and potential risk of workplace activities, the should have reported it to WorkCover who would have been compelled to investigate. They did not.

s'd

WorkCover have investigated the AFL for possible breaches of the act, we just haven't heard what they found or didn't find. What I was relating to, was the AFL knew about Essendon and the supplements program before that fateful day in February 2012. Our friend Andrew D lied about not knowing which club. The AFL sat back knowingly and did nothing at all to prevent what was "allegedly" happening at EFC. They could have intervened and stopped the program, they didn't. They have a joint duty of care with the EFC but they also had a conflict of interest being in a joint investigation with ASADA. They cannot wear every hat and should not be able to overlook their legal obligations. (Well they can and they do.)

[boncer34]

FWIW there is strong rumor going around that Little has tossed in more then a couple of mil of his own to get us through this mess.

Initial reports had that figure at 7 mil but that always seemed excessive to me.

[BenDoolan]

FWIW there is strong rumor going around that Little has tossed in more then a couple of mil of his own to get us through this mess.

Initial reports had that figure at 7 mil but that always seemed excessive to me.

I thought there was "insurance" for this crap. Or is HE the insurance?