Collingwood's Draw a Bonus for Essendon

[Windy_Hill]

Collingwood's 2012 fixture includes playing 4 of last year's Top 5, twice!!!!

Now, dont get me wrong, I reckon Geelong were fantastic in winning the flag but lets be honest, the Pies were the best team throughout the year and remain in my opinion, the best team. Surely they will be pumped after giving up the flag to the Cats

So I firmly believe that they have what it takes to do some damage to the other clubs aspiring for a Top 4 position which when you think about it opens the door for Teams like Essendon. Teams that may slip into a Top 4 position on the basis that Collingwood is going to do some damage to the incumbents. Yes, there are a lot of ifs and buts, but with the Top 4 all cannibalising points from each other - could make for a wide open final 8 next season

[jimmyc1985]

Geelong were clearly the best team last year. They beat Collingwood three times (comprehensively in two of those victories), and the form in the finals was clear:
v Hawthorn: Geelong comfortably had them covered by 6 goals, Collingwood fell over the line with a minute to go.
v West Coast: Geelong belted them, Collingwood only had the game won with 5 minutes to go.
Grand Final: Cats were the better team most of the day and ran away with it in the last quarter.

I expect both Collingwood and Geelong to go slightly backwards in absolute terms next year - Geelong are without Ling, Ottens and Menzel (Milburn and Mooney are irrelevant), Collingwood are without Brown, Davis and most of their coaching panel. The question will be whether any teams behind them, e.g. Carlton/WC/Hawthorn etc, can improve enough to make up the gap.

[Windy_Hill]

Geelong were clearly the best team last year. They beat Collingwood three times (comprehensively in two of those victories), and the form in the finals was clear:
v Hawthorn: Geelong comfortably had them covered by 6 goals, Collingwood fell over the line with a minute to go.
v West Coast: Geelong belted them, Collingwood only had the game won with 5 minutes to go.
Grand Final: Cats were the better team most of the day and ran away with it in the last quarter.

I expect both Collingwood and Geelong to go slightly backwards in absolute terms next year - Geelong are without Ling, Ottens and Menzel (Milburn and Mooney are irrelevant), Collingwood are without Brown, Davis and most of their coaching panel. The question will be whether any teams behind them, e.g. Carlton/WC/Hawthorn etc, can improve enough to make up the gap.

Thanks Jimmy, I was expecting someone would refute my comment. On the surface, Geelong won the flag so yes, technically they were the best team. But in reality, Collingwood ran out of legs towards the end of the season, had injury problems and ran into Tom Hawkins for his second decent game in about three years. If you look at their overall performance throughout the year, other than the Geelong games, Collingwood was the superior team. My point being that they will be a formidable foe for other top 4 contenders who will have to playy them twice. - I believe this will open up the top 4 making it a very competitive season

[Gatsid]

Geelong were clearly the best team last year. They beat Collingwood three times (comprehensively in two of those victories), and the form in the finals was clear:
v Hawthorn: Geelong comfortably had them covered by 6 goals, Collingwood fell over the line with a minute to go.
v West Coast: Geelong belted them, Collingwood only had the game won with 5 minutes to go.
Grand Final: Cats were the better team most of the day and ran away with it in the last quarter.

I expect both Collingwood and Geelong to go slightly backwards in absolute terms next year - Geelong are without Ling, Ottens and Menzel (Milburn and Mooney are irrelevant), Collingwood are without Brown, Davis and most of their coaching panel. The question will be whether any teams behind them, e.g. Carlton/WC/Hawthorn etc, can improve enough to make up the gap.

Thanks Jimmy, I was expecting someone would refute my comment. On the surface, Geelong won the flag so yes, technically they were the best team. But in reality, Collingwood ran out of legs towards the end of the season, had injury problems and ran into Tom Hawkins for his second decent game in about three years. If you look at their overall performance throughout the year, other than the Geelong games, Collingwood was the superior team. My point being that they will be a formidable foe for other top 4 contenders who will have to playy them twice. - I believe this will open up the top 4 making it a very competitive season

Whilst you may be right that as the top 4 sides play each other more times it will either spread the wins or take wins away from say two of the top four. If we want to even think about top 4 we need to ensure we win all games against Richmond, North, Melbourne, Power, Brisbane, Crows, GC and GWS. Something we haven't been able to do in a long time, until we can comprehensively beat those teams we'll stay 12-8.

[Sismis]

Goes down to what you consider the better team to be. Collingwood went it all guns blazing for most of the year destroying almost everyone beofre them. Geelong was good for most of the year and built for the finals. Lions did the same thing in thier premiership years.

For the purpose of windys point, collingwood were better on the home and away scoreboard which means they may well create opportunities by cropping a few points off those other teams. Or they may drop a few of those and fall apart which would gold.

[Gimps]

I hope Collingwood drops all of those games, and a few more. Would be nothing better than seeing them completely lose their junk under Big Nose Buckley.

[ealesy]

For mine Collingwood was the best team in the first half of the season, but Geelong were in far better form in the 2nd half of the season and the finals.

Collingwood coped a couple of injuries, but their 2nd half of the season was hardly dominate. Still won most games, but were not convincing in a number of them, and in the Geelong planned their season better and peaked for finals, whereas Collingwood limped into the finals with injured and exhausted players, were hardly convincing against West Coast, and were damn lucky to escape against Hawthorn in the prelim and even make the Grand Final.

[boncer34]

I hope Collingwood drops all of those games, and a few more. Would be nothing better than seeing them completely lose their junk under Big Nose Buckley.

Yep. I'm backing that outcome.

[ZeroEffect]

I can't believe people read so much into the draw. This time last year if you found out you had to play West Coast twice you would of been more than happy (reverse that for Adelaide). Sometimes what looks like a tough draw can turn out to be a good one and vise versa. What's more important for Essendon is that we hold on to fixtures like ANZAC day and traditional games against clubs like Richmond and Carlton. These are always big games no matter what position on the ladder we or they are and are usually played with a finals like intensity. Anyway my point is a good draw for next year in Nov 2011 may not be a good draw in May or June 2012.

[BenDoolan]

I can't believe people read so much into the draw. This time last year if you found out you had to play West Coast twice you would of been more than happy (reverse that for Adelaide). Sometimes what looks like a tough draw can turn out to be a good one and vise versa. What's more important for Essendon is that we hold on to fixtures like ANZAC day and traditional games against clubs like Richmond and Carlton. These are always big games no matter what position on the ladder we or they are and are usually played with a finals like intensity. Anyway my point is a good draw for next year in Nov 2011 may not be a good draw in May or June 2012.

Correct.

[Windy_Hill]

I can't believe people read so much into the draw. This time last year if you found out you had to play West Coast twice you would of been more than happy (reverse that for Adelaide). Sometimes what looks like a tough draw can turn out to be a good one and vise versa. What's more important for Essendon is that we hold on to fixtures like ANZAC day and traditional games against clubs like Richmond and Carlton. These are always big games no matter what position on the ladder we or they are and are usually played with a finals like intensity. Anyway my point is a good draw for next year in Nov 2011 may not be a good draw in May or June 2012.

Agree. a lot of maybes and what ifs, but it is an interesting situation where you have the bookmaker's top teams allf acing off against the minor premier two times each - I cant recall this happening before and it could result in a pretty open top 8

But as you said, a lot can change and last year's top 4 may be this year's big sliders

[Gimps]

For mine Collingwood was the best team in the first half of the season, but Geelong were in far better form in the 2nd half of the season and the finals.

Collingwood coped a couple of injuries, but their 2nd half of the season was hardly dominate. Still won most games, but were not convincing in a number of them, and in the Geelong planned their season better and peaked for finals, whereas Collingwood limped into the finals with injured and exhausted players, were hardly convincing against West Coast, and were damn lucky to escape against Hawthorn in the prelim and even make the Grand Final.

Disagree. Geelong were the best side a game before the finals, and in the finals. Let's not forget they dropped a couple of games late in the season, including their first loss at home in a thooooooousand years.

[jimmyc1985]

I can't believe people read so much into the draw. This time last year if you found out you had to play West Coast twice you would of been more than happy (reverse that for Adelaide). Sometimes what looks like a tough draw can turn out to be a good one and vise versa. What's more important for Essendon is that we hold on to fixtures like ANZAC day and traditional games against clubs like Richmond and Carlton. These are always big games no matter what position on the ladder we or they are and are usually played with a finals like intensity. Anyway my point is a good draw for next year in Nov 2011 may not be a good draw in May or June 2012.

Agree to an extent. At this stage, the fact we play Richmond and Kangaroos twice looks to be a good thing as they're both pretty ordinary teams and neither looks close to being successful on a sustained basis. But, then again, it's not impossible that both teams could produce randomly outstanding years (like Richmond did in 1995 or 2001, or North did in 2007).

That said, i think it's a very safe bet that GWS will be horrendously bad next year, and sides like Port, Brisbane and GC won't be much better.

[BenDoolan]

I can't believe people read so much into the draw. This time last year if you found out you had to play West Coast twice you would of been more than happy (reverse that for Adelaide). Sometimes what looks like a tough draw can turn out to be a good one and vise versa. What's more important for Essendon is that we hold on to fixtures like ANZAC day and traditional games against clubs like Richmond and Carlton. These are always big games no matter what position on the ladder we or they are and are usually played with a finals like intensity. Anyway my point is a good draw for next year in Nov 2011 may not be a good draw in May or June 2012.

Agree to an extent. At this stage, the fact we play Richmond and Kangaroos twice looks to be a good thing as they're both pretty ordinary teams and neither looks close to being successful on a sustained basis. But, then again, it's not impossible that both teams could produce randomly outstanding years (like Richmond did in 1995 or 2001, or North did in 2007).

The problem is, we generally play like fools against the likes of them and generally play above ourselves against better sides.

[boris]

I hope Collingwood drops all of those games, and a few more. Would be nothing better than seeing them completely lose their junk under Big Nose Buckley.

=D> =D> yep..........