Team setup

[Jazz_84]

recently Hurley, Crameri and a resting ruckman hasn't worked at all and now with Gumby to come back in (people calling for him to play against Freo but we'll see) where does that leave our forward line? far too much tall timber in the team who misses?

Ryder loves the #1 ruck role but belly can't really do much else and with possibly Gumby FF and Hurley CHF we wont need a ruckman down there, won't be enough room to move which is half our problem right now. should we play Crameri as a small forward or can he maybe push up the ground a bit? (he played as a mid in his younger days I believe)

where does belly sit? because with our line up and structure shaping up the way it is, we can't really fit in 2 ruckman..... unless we try to rotate them as much as possible but i can't see how that would work wasting a bench spot like that all game for a ruckman

OR

do we throw Hurley down back for a while? something has to give and its going to be tough for the coaches to sort out

[nudder12]

It's only an IF....but IF Gumby manages to get into the team, then he should play CHF as a target. Crammers at FF or flank because he is a genuine forward and has the ability to crumb goals as well (and stays on his feet brilliantly). i think at the moment Hurley would benefit from a spell at CHB but in the long run he's gonna be more useful in the forward line so I see his role as more of a link-up forward, moving up the ground like Nick Reivoldt. Don't think Hurley is big enough for a pure CHF role.

[F111]

It's only an IF....but IF Gumby manages to get into the team, then he should play CHF as a target. Crammers at FF or flank because he is a genuine forward and has the ability to crumb goals as well (and stays on his feet brilliantly). i think at the moment Hurley would benefit from a spell at CHB but in the long run he's gonna be more useful in the forward line so I see his role as more of a link-up forward, moving up the ground like Nick Reivoldt. Don't think Hurley is big enough for a pure CHF role.

Hurls needs to get his hands on the ball and run straight ahead to get some confidence. I'm afraid he's butchering the role a bit at the moment. He's great crashing a pack or two and making opportunities for others, but as CHF he needs to snag a couple of goals every game. He had his chances tonight, but I think the switch to CHB was good, if not a bit late.

Let's just hope Gumby can stay fit 'cause come another 3-4 weeks he might just provide a decent running and marking alternative. [-o< If he can stay fit and play a few games he may just be right at the business end...fresh too!

[swoodley]

I hold more hope for Carlisle developing as a forward than Hurley.

Carlisle played as a forward as a junior and so it is probably his natural role.

Hurley just doesn't seem to want to take the responsibility of being the leader of our forward line. He looks to give the ball off just like Jetta in his early years. If he has the ball within 50 metres of goal, he should be taking the kick 9 times out of 10.

[nudder12]

Carlisle just looks too slow for mine.
As for Hurley, I'd like to see him in person because I don't reckon he's as big as the club stats suggest. And what we need is some big thug who can crash a pack and make an impact. Hurley tries hard enough, I adnire his effort, but I just don't reckon he has the body to be consistently more than a lead-up target.

[ZeroEffect]

I think other clubs are starting to work our "team plan" or "setup" out. It probably hasn't helped that Crameri is semi injured. The swans flooded our forward line last night, most of the game was played in our forward 50. As soon as it rebounded out the Swans had an open forward line and did well to run into the space. That's usually what Essendon does and Crameri is usually the beneficiary of that. The Swans out coached and out played us for 3 quarters.

Talk of rushing Gumbleton back in and dropping Bellchambers because he was substituted or permanently swapping Carlisle and Hurley is crazy. No need to panic just yet. The bye couldn't come at a better time for us with most of our players looking very tired. Hopefully we can reset and smash Freo in 2 weeks.

[billyduckworth]

"I think other clubs are starting to work our "team plan" or "setup" out."

Definitely agree with this. Last two weeks in a row we have basically been outcoached.
Swapping Hurley & Carlisle and throwing Jobe forward towards the end last night was the first hint of any change at all. But it was too late.
I don't think it is total co-incidence that after these changes we finally started to score (although I do think the Swans went too defensive and took their foot off the pedal too, which allowed us a sniff).

[hop]

Anyone who thinks poor kicking for goal cost us last night wasn't at the game.

Yes we missed a lot of shots - however our delivery into the forward line, the angles and distances they were forced to shoot from, the double teaming of our key forwards and the congestion in our forward 50 - all indicated that they were 'on' and we were outsmarted.

Everytime they transisitoned from defence to attack, in the first 3 quarters, they did it with speed, precision and planning. Their forward 50 was open and they ran to spaces.

When there was congestion they won the ball more consistently and cleverly used it to advantage.

We butchered the bloody thing most of the night - over possed the ball and couldn't hit a target inside 50. Just as we did the prvious week. When Froggy becomes the key marking forward and the bloke that they look for - then you know we are f***ed!

Hirdy walking off to the rooms in front of the playing group at half time indicated to me that he was fearful of the spray the were going to cop from the faithful. Clever move - the only one he made in the first half.

If this is our structure - we have been exposed by pretty average coaches.

The last quarter was an aborration and it would have been grand theft if we pinched it last night.

I know Monfries has become a bit of a whipping boy on BT - but there is a reason for that - and last night did not spare him from some more lashes. Reimers has got to add more to the team than this particular passenger.

Zaka was a huge loss for us last night also. His run and carry was really missed. Demps did a great job - despite what others have said - however he was playing a lone hand for most of the night.

The birch should be brought out for Crameri and Hurley as well. The last 2 weeks has been woeful for these two. They are just not tall enough to play the role they are attempting. Ryder, Hille, Carlisle or maybe Gumby need to go forward.

[j-mac31]

I don't think Gumby should be in for at least a few more weeks, but I don't think we'd necessarily be too tall.

Geelong won the grand final last year with two ruckmen and two tall forwards in the team (although one was subbed out).
Collingwood won the year before with two tall forwards, one ruckman and L Brown in the team.
This year West Coast plays three tall forwards and two ruckmen when everyone is fit.

I don't consider Crameri "tall", given he is "only" 190cm, relatively quick and good at ground level.

Our problem at the moment is we are playing shit.

I do think Hurley should go back, regardless of whether Gumbleton comes in or not.

[Crazyman]

I don't think the setup is the problem. Our shit kicking for goal is the problem and has been all year, just more so the last couple of weeks in which it has cost us dearly for 2 games in a row...

When you are having more shots on goal than your opponent, but score 2-15 in 3/4's of footy, you don't deserve to win ffs...

[Sartorius]

I think the team is quite tired at the moment. This could just be from a taxing first half of the season or the club are training them hard for better physical conditioning in the last half of the season. I like to think it is the latter. The swans got a lot more numbers to the ball on Saturday night. We were constantly outnumbered and it showed. When we did move the ball forward we often had very tired, rushed kicks, straight to the opposition.

In regards to the structure I agree that gumbleton will certainly straighten us up, but I wouldn't put him in the team against freo unless he dominates in the vfl next weekend. Maybe for the doggies. I would leave hurley up forward until then as he just needs one decent half to regain confidence. The bye will bode well for bellchambers who has looked tired the last few weeks. Hopefully he is back to earlier form after the bye.

[F111]

We didn't look tired in the Q4. Nor should we have as we had obviously been saving ourselves for the Q4 challenge.

[Sartorius]

You are right. Although we were so dominant in the midfield with our clearances that we didn't have to do nearly as much running. Would love to see the distance ran in the last compard to the other quarters. Whatever hirdy said at three quarter time worked.

[little_ripper]

Changes for the next couple of games? Reimers/Dell'olio. Surely 1 will come in for Davey(assuming suspension stands which it most likely will).
Hibberd should also come in.

re: worrying about other sides figuring us out? I wouldn't...not enough credit in this thread for how the Swans played the basics. They dominated. Their ball movement was as good as I have seen by any club this season, pressure without the ball also super intense. Sydney deserve even with a soft draw to be up the top of the ladder.

fwiw I think the wheel has turned. If essendon carry the final quarter form in from the weekend into Fremantle. We will blow the dockers off the park.

last few weeks the dons have played like the side in the match with everything to lose.

Now we have dropped into the bottom half of the 8, I would expect the sides mentality to change somewhat, back into the side with everything to gain...the side we knew for the first 8 or so weeks of the season.

[Gimps]

I give us a 10% chance of beating Freo at Subi. If the Swans can find space and cut us up with run at Etithad, imagine what will happen at Subi.

[little_ripper]

I give us a 10% chance of beating Freo at Subi. If the Swans can find space and cut us up with run at Etithad, imagine what will happen at Subi.

you reckon?

they aint been that convincing at home this year. reckon we might cut up freo with our own ball movement.

although its going to another painful game to watch without Zaharakis in the side.