Tempo Footy

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BenDoolan
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Tempo Footy

Post by BenDoolan » Tue May 28, 2019 10:43 am

Heard an interesting stat on SEN this morning. Teams that like to run and gun as their style of play (or game plan) v those who like to slow things down and hang onto the ball.

Apparently, the quickest ball moving teams are Melbourne, Carlton, St.Kilda and Essendon. The slowest ball moving teams are Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast and Richmond.

Now check the ladder positions.

While the quick, slick ball movement looks exciting to watch, it comes with a high risk of error. Check Clanger stats etc

The hierarchy at Bomberland decided they wanted to please us fans (after the dreaded drugs saga) by wanting to play an exciting brand of footy. That is their mission. Xavie Campbie said so to our members.

So, is it about the optics or about the result that’s more important to us?

Nothing much has changed as far as our performances go. We still try and play that high octane style, and not much has changed defensively despite getting Rutten in to make it tighter. Are we burning / blowing out our players as a result?

Is it a matter of patience, or a matter of patients in regards to our game plan?


I WANT ANSWERS
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robbie67
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by robbie67 » Tue May 28, 2019 11:27 am

GWS run and gun. They have the skills to do it. This style has never won a flag though.

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s'dreams
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by s'dreams » Tue May 28, 2019 11:35 am

Richmond is a slow team? Could have fooled me.
dices ad adepto futui (tell them to f*** off)

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BenDoolan
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by BenDoolan » Tue May 28, 2019 11:51 am

robbie67 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:27 am
GWS run and gun. They have the skills to do it. This style has never won a flag though.
Yes, they were the exception re: quickest ball movers v ladder position. But as you say, they have come unstuck in September a few times.
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

nudder12
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by nudder12 » Tue May 28, 2019 12:38 pm

s'dreams wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:35 am
Richmond is a slow team? Could have fooled me.
The stat was about % of play on from marks IIRC.

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BenDoolan
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by BenDoolan » Tue May 28, 2019 12:40 pm

nudder12 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:38 pm
s'dreams wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:35 am
Richmond is a slow team? Could have fooled me.
The stat was about % of play on from marks IIRC.
Yep, it’s about playing on v keeping possession
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

Crazyman
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by Crazyman » Tue May 28, 2019 1:11 pm

BenDoolan wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:40 pm
nudder12 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:38 pm
s'dreams wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:35 am
Richmond is a slow team? Could have fooled me.
The stat was about % of play on from marks IIRC.
Yep, it’s about playing on v keeping possession
Our problem is we do both badly...

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Windy_Hill
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by Windy_Hill » Tue May 28, 2019 6:50 pm

The question I have is if we are so run and gun, why is it that we are week in, week out, one of the poorest performers in distance covered and sprint efforts? Some of our stats in this area are simply embarrassing. The myth is we are this fast running team but that is based on the efforts of 4 or 5 players. Saad, McKenna, Shiel, McGrath, Fantasia, Walla. Of our midfield, Heppell, Merrett, Zaharakis, Parish and Myers are hardly Usain Bolts. Langford, Stringer, Laverde, Baguely, Begley up front are barely quicker than my dear Mum....Hurley, Hooker, Ambrose etc down back...lumbering is their top speed.

If we are so fast, why can’t we spread out in or out of possession like other teams? We zone up quite well but once the zone is penetrated we are gone.

We have to be the least fit team in the competition....we can only mount one maybe two quarters of pressure footy before collapsing in a heap. How many times do we get to a 5 goal lead to only squander it and get run over? Likewise, how often do we allow teams to jump us and then only mount a serious comeback when it’s all too late?

When was the last time we had multiple 5+ goal victories in a season. Our percentages over the last 3 years have hovered around 100%....we don’t usually get blasted off the park nor do we savage our opponents. I put that down to the fact that we will generally dominate 1 or 2 qtrs a game then allow the opposition to do likewise for the rest.

Rover99
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by Rover99 » Tue May 28, 2019 10:50 pm

Our run and gun in recent times reminds me of a game of pass the parcel at a mental institution. We are hopelessly inadequate and our frantic bursts rarely end up with anything but a turnover . And if we do happn to take a mark in range we can't kick anyway so WTF.. I know that Geelong sometimes looks slow and deliberate but when have we ever been looking down the ladder at them in the past 20 years? On its own for teams like us it's simply not a winning strategy

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BenDoolan
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by BenDoolan » Tue May 28, 2019 11:07 pm

Rover99 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:50 pm
Our run and gun in recent times reminds me of a game of pass the parcel at a mental institution.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
We are hopelessly inadequate and our frantic bursts rarely end up with anything but a turnover . And if we do happn to take a mark in range we can't kick anyway so WTF..

Spot on!
I know that Geelong sometimes looks slow and deliberate but when have we ever been looking down the ladder at them in the past 20 years? On its own for teams like us it's simply not a winning strategy
20 years ago, we were high as kites. On the other hand, 15 years ago, they beat us in a Semi Final by 10 points. And then began our sustained period of shitness...
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

nudder12
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by nudder12 » Wed May 29, 2019 12:41 am

Windy_Hill wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 6:50 pm
The question I have is if we are so run and gun, why is it that we are week in, week out, one of the poorest performers in distance covered and sprint efforts? Some of our stats in this area are simply embarrassing. The myth is we are this fast running team but that is based on the efforts of 4 or 5 players. Saad, McKenna, Shiel, McGrath, Fantasia, Walla. Of our midfield, Heppell, Merrett, Zaharakis, Parish and Myers are hardly Usain Bolts. Langford, Stringer, Laverde, Baguely, Begley up front are barely quicker than my dear Mum....Hurley, Hooker, Ambrose etc down back...lumbering is their top speed.

If we are so fast, why can’t we spread out in or out of possession like other teams? We zone up quite well but once the zone is penetrated we are gone.
True. We actually aren't all that "run and gun". A few are, but generally we're not. Too many plodding mids.
Not that I want to single out anyone, but TBC is a prime example. Honestly I think he's been OK for us, but...he is really slow compared to a lot of the other rucks in the comp. OK, just so I'm not singling out TBC, let's add Zaharakis & Myers to the mix - they're also very one-paced.
And the work rate (distance/sprints) all goes back to the question discussed elsewhere on here - do the players work hard enough?

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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by MH_Bomber » Wed May 29, 2019 2:54 am

Heard an interesting stat on SEN this morning. Teams that like to run and gun as their style of play (or game plan) v those who like to slow things down and hang onto the ball.

Apparently, the quickest ball moving teams are Melbourne, Carlton, St.Kilda and Essendon. The slowest ball moving teams are Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast and Richmond.
I don’t believe this stat. Geelong have changed their style this year and play on more now. From what I’ve seen of Collingwood they move the ball quickly. The West Coast are hard to read because they have been below par so far but look now to be capable of coming good as they did last weekend. Richmond play slow until they see an opening and then play very fast.

For our group, a group bereft of confidence and game nous, the only way we look effective is by applying the following game strategies;

1) massive pressure on the opposition in contested ball causing turnovers to gain possession
2) When we win the ball provide the player with the ball with protection by running in numbers offensively
3) Courage to go up the guts or switch quickly to provide down the ground options by being prepared to run run run
4) Playing on at all costs to stop opposition from doing their defensive set ups
5) Generally going for it and having dare

Sometimes I wonder whether post game analysis is our biggest problem. We were flying coming up to the Collingwood game. In that game they employed clogging tactics that stopped us in the first half. We actually overcame this employing the above mentioned tactics ourselves in the second half.In the last few minutes Walla did a risky centre of the ball into the corridor, the ball was turned over and we ended up losing narrowly. I just wonder if the analysis from that game made them go into their shells because we haven’t played anywhere near that level since.

This is what I hate about bringing Rutten in to “teach” the team Richmond’s defensive ways. Our attacking brand does stands up because it suits the team. What doesn’t suit is selecting too many slow players who can’t execute.
Regards

MH_Bomber

nudder12
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by nudder12 » Wed May 29, 2019 3:21 am

MH_Bomber wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:54 am
Heard an interesting stat on SEN this morning. Teams that like to run and gun as their style of play (or game plan) v those who like to slow things down and hang onto the ball.

Apparently, the quickest ball moving teams are Melbourne, Carlton, St.Kilda and Essendon. The slowest ball moving teams are Geelong, Collingwood, West Coast and Richmond.
...........

For our group, a group bereft of confidence and game nous, the only way we look effective is by applying the following game strategies;

1) massive pressure on the opposition in contested ball causing turnovers to gain possession
2) When we win the ball provide the player with the ball with protection by running in numbers offensively
3) Courage to go up the guts or switch quickly to provide down the ground options by being prepared to run run run
4) Playing on at all costs to stop opposition from doing their defensive set ups
5) Generally going for it and having dare

Sometimes I wonder whether post game analysis is our biggest problem. We were flying coming up to the Collingwood game. In that game they employed clogging tactics that stopped us in the first half. We actually overcame this employing the above mentioned tactics ourselves in the second half.In the last few minutes Walla did a risky centre of the ball into the corridor, the ball was turned over and we ended up losing narrowly. I just wonder if the analysis from that game made them go into their shells because we haven’t played anywhere near that level since.
.........
MH....I reckon your ideas about what makes us a good team are virtually the same as every other team. In summary, apply pressure, get a turnover, and move the ball quickly into offence.
Nothing would have changed in the Collingwood post-game analysis - except perhaps an emphasis on decision-making and execution.
To me, your comments highlight a lot of opinion about our game plan.
People say we have no "Plan B". But that's too simplistic. Because the "Plan A" is - in this situation do this, but if that's not practical then do this instead.
It's naive to think the game plan is simply run run run. It includes what to do when we have the ball as well as when we don't have the ball.

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F111
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by F111 » Wed May 29, 2019 12:16 pm

The plan might be ok if the execution were better. :?

We've lost games just from poor kicking or a poor decision. Intercepted Walla and Daniher centering kicks in the back half, missed shots on goal from in front and 30 metres from at least Langford(2), Clarke (2&1)....change those and we're a least a better chance to win.

Shiel coming out of the D50 with 3 wide open targets/teammates but the kick goes to the solitary 'pie in the last 5/60... :roll:

Skills at critical times have failed. :( :oops:

I won't mention goal post climbing and non frees where players stopped x 3 occasions expecting them. :wink: The incorrect goal post non decision has cost us 4 points.

Wins bring confidence, confidence improves skills, skills win more games. Gotta get them skills up to scratch.

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BenDoolan
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by BenDoolan » Wed May 29, 2019 2:23 pm

F111 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:16 pm
The plan might be ok if the execution were better. :?

We've lost games just from poor kicking or a poor decision. Intercepted Walla and Daniher centering kicks in the back half, missed shots on goal from in front and 30 metres from at least Langford(2), Clarke (2&1)....change those and we're a least a better chance to win.

Shiel coming out of the D50 with 3 wide open targets/teammates but the kick goes to the solitary 'pie in the last 5/60... :roll:

Skills at critical times have failed. :( :oops:

I won't mention goal post climbing and non frees where players stopped x 3 occasions expecting them. :wink: The incorrect goal post non decision has cost us 4 points.

Wins bring confidence, confidence improves skills, skills win more games. Gotta get them skills up to scratch.
They need to re-think this strategy (run & gun) during wet weather. Last Saturday night showed (wow what a surprise :roll: ) that a quick ‘play on’ with handball was fraught with danger. A few occasions in the first quarter saw the handball option come a cropper when the recipient failed to handle the wet ball. Do you need to be Einstein to work out that handling the ball less is the order of the day?
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

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F111
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by F111 » Thu May 30, 2019 12:32 am

BenDoolan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:23 pm
F111 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:16 pm
The plan might be ok if the execution were better. :?

We've lost games just from poor kicking or a poor decision. Intercepted Walla and Daniher centering kicks in the back half, missed shots on goal from in front and 30 metres from at least Langford(2), Clarke (2&1)....change those and we're a least a better chance to win.

Shiel coming out of the D50 with 3 wide open targets/teammates but the kick goes to the solitary 'pie in the last 5/60... :roll:

Skills at critical times have failed. :( :oops:

I won't mention goal post climbing and non frees where players stopped x 3 occasions expecting them. :wink: The incorrect goal post non decision has cost us 4 points.

Wins bring confidence, confidence improves skills, skills win more games. Gotta get them skills up to scratch.
They need to re-think this strategy (run & gun) during wet weather. Last Saturday night showed (wow what a surprise :roll: ) that a quick ‘play on’ with handball was fraught with danger. A few occasions in the first quarter saw the handball option come a cropper when the recipient failed to handle the wet ball. Do you need to be Einstein to work out that handling the ball less is the order of the day?
Irish duffed the first one in the middle pdq into the game. I rolled me eyes!

Meanwhile the tiggers were already kicking long...off the deck.

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BenDoolan
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Re: Tempo Footy

Post by BenDoolan » Thu May 30, 2019 6:11 am

F111 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 12:32 am
BenDoolan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 2:23 pm
F111 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 12:16 pm
The plan might be ok if the execution were better. :?

We've lost games just from poor kicking or a poor decision. Intercepted Walla and Daniher centering kicks in the back half, missed shots on goal from in front and 30 metres from at least Langford(2), Clarke (2&1)....change those and we're a least a better chance to win.

Shiel coming out of the D50 with 3 wide open targets/teammates but the kick goes to the solitary 'pie in the last 5/60... :roll:

Skills at critical times have failed. :( :oops:

I won't mention goal post climbing and non frees where players stopped x 3 occasions expecting them. :wink: The incorrect goal post non decision has cost us 4 points.

Wins bring confidence, confidence improves skills, skills win more games. Gotta get them skills up to scratch.
They need to re-think this strategy (run & gun) during wet weather. Last Saturday night showed (wow what a surprise :roll: ) that a quick ‘play on’ with handball was fraught with danger. A few occasions in the first quarter saw the handball option come a cropper when the recipient failed to handle the wet ball. Do you need to be Einstein to work out that handling the ball less is the order of the day?
Irish duffed the first one in the middle pdq into the game. I rolled me eyes!

Meanwhile the tiggers were already kicking long...off the deck.
Exactly!
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

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