Is He the Messiah? Or Just a Naughty Boy

Windy_Hill · Post by **Windy_Hill** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:31 pm

Courtney Johns has probably had his chances I would think. Lloyd being out the team with injury over the last year and a bit has really presented CJ with a gilt edged oppoertunity to claim a permanebt place in the team. It appears that despite the hype, he just hasnt been able to bridge the gap between good Bendigo player togood AFL player.

With Neagle looking promising as a future Full Forward and Gumby most defnitely our long term hope for CHF, what does CJ have to do in the remaining 15 games (whether it be at Bendigo or at Essendon) to prove his value and long term place?

Madden · Post by **Madden** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:37 pm

He'd have a better chance if someone actually kicked it to him.

Rossoneri · Post by **Rossoneri** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:40 pm

Windy_Hill wrote:Courtney Johns has probably had his chances I would think. Lloyd being out the team with injury over the last year and a bit has really presented CJ with a gilt edged oppoertunity to claim a permanebt place in the team. It appears that despite the hype, he just hasnt been able to bridge the gap between good Bendigo player togood AFL player.

With Neagle looking promising as a future Full Forward and Gumby most defnitely our long term hope for CHF, what does CJ have to do in the remaining 15 games (whether it be at Bendigo or at Essendon) to prove his value and long term place?

Maybe if Sheedy played him correctly. Im all for isolating a player with a height/weight advantage, but Friday night bordered on stupidity.

It was clear the instruction was to give Lucas the whole 50m arc against Gibson. But then the Roos started dropping players back, which threw Sheeds right out. Sheedy cant seem to combat when a team drops a player back in defence.

Western Red · Post by **Western Red** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:43 pm

Staggy wrote:He'd have a better chance if someone actually kicked it to him.

This could be the issue that the players are not confident in him and as such dont go to him or the coaching staff could be instructing them to go to Lucas at all costs.

He certainly hasn't grabbed his opportunities this year. Still time for him and definately should be an emergency ahead of Bolts and Kepler.

Rossoneri · Post by **Rossoneri** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:44 pm

Staggy wrote:He'd have a better chance if someone actually kicked it to him.

No excuse. When you pull on a Essendon jumper these days, you have to expect the midfield is, in general, incapable of performing basic footballing skills. This applies to tackling and manning up your opponent.

Im on the angry pills today because im sick of him giving has-been hacks a run when we should be developing for next year, not trying to save a coaches career that is already finished.

We are starting to get into the hard part of the draw of playing Brisbane, Sydney, West Coke, Port, all in the next 6 weeks.

Madden · Post by **Madden** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:26 pm

Rossoneri wrote:
Staggy wrote:He'd have a better chance if someone actually kicked it to him.
No excuse. When you pull on a Essendon jumper these days, you have to expect the midfield is, in general, incapable of performing basic footballing skills. This applies to tackling and manning up your opponent.

Im on the angry pills today because im sick of him giving has-been hacks a run when we should be developing for next year, not trying to save a coaches career that is already finished.

We are starting to get into the hard part of the draw of playing Brisbane, Sydney, West Coke, Port, all in the next 6 weeks.

Slightly off topic but I agree.

With the kicking - the midfielders just won't kick it to him, its not that they can't, its that they won't. If they isolated him one out in the square or kicked it to him when he was on a lead the kid would kick a bag.

I don't think its that they don't trust him specifically, its more that they don't feel comfortable kicking the thing to anyone but Lloyd and Lucas - hence why they keep kicking it to them even when they have 8 blokes hanging off them (Lucas v Hawthorn is a prime example).

swoodley · Post by **swoodley** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:31 pm

17 games into an AFL career for a big guy who has overcome a pretty serious injury and is basically still learning what it's all about.

In games where the ball has actually been kicked in his general direction, he has looked good. His kicking has improved significantly since his early games and he has the ability to take strong one grab marks.

I fail to see how you can arrive at a decision that he has failed to make the grade...certainly to date he has not produced on a regular basis but there have been enough glimpses to show that he has what it takes (imo)

He does need to turn those glimpses into something more productive on a regular basis and I think that his return to Bendigo this week is part of the learning process for him. Hopefully he'll do a Kepler and take them apart for a few weeks and then come back in and produce the goods.

As for comparisons with Neagle and Gumby...what have either of them done at AFL level to be rated ahead of Johns...not a thing at this stage and seeing as both are injured, it's unlikely we'll be seeing either of them in the near future.

Finally, he should never have got his hair cut...

Madden · Post by **Madden** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:50 pm

swoodley wrote: Hopefully he'll do a Kepler

Possibly not the best example...

swoodley · Post by **swoodley** » Fri May 18, 2007 6:09 pm

Staggy wrote:
swoodley wrote: Hopefully he'll do a Kepler
Possibly not the best example...

True

but I was referring to how Kepler has gone back to Bendigo and played really well at a time when he could have dropped his bundle.

citizenerased · Post by **citizenerased** » Fri May 18, 2007 8:28 pm

Lucas Johns lovett
Monfries Lloyd MJ

any reason that forward line cant work. Lucas and Johns have the ability to push up, much like richom fev and hall do. With that, if they possess the ball, they have the kick length to put it to Lloyd in a decent position from anywhere forward of the wing. and both know how to deliver.

i wouldnt write Johns off, esp since neither gumby or neagle (i think) have played afl level yet.

Essendon4eva · Post by **Essendon4eva** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:09 pm

Our medfielders are the reaosn Johns hasn't been effective. With lloyd and Lucas in the side, that group try adn get them the ball. When Lloyd is out they all try and get Lucas the ball, because it s in thier mind that he is our only goal kicker.

At the end of the day the medfield group doesn't have faith in Johns.

BenDoolan · Post by **BenDoolan** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:15 pm

Essendon4eva wrote:Our medfielders are the reaosn Johns hasn't been effective. With lloyd and Lucas in the side, that group try adn get them the ball. When Lloyd is out they all try and get Lucas the ball, because it s in thier mind that he is our only goal kicker.

At the end of the day the medfield group doesn't have faith in Johns.

Perhaps they are under instruction. Have you thought of that?

Post by **boncer34** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:25 pm

Doubt it BD but you never know.

swoodley · Post by **swoodley** » Fri May 18, 2007 9:55 pm

BenDoolan wrote:
Essendon4eva wrote:Our medfielders are the reaosn Johns hasn't been effective. With lloyd and Lucas in the side, that group try adn get them the ball. When Lloyd is out they all try and get Lucas the ball, because it s in thier mind that he is our only goal kicker.

At the end of the day the medfield group doesn't have faith in Johns.
Perhaps they are under instruction. Have you thought of that?

It would be a very poor set of instructions that tell players to just kick it to Lloyd or Lucas. That would (a) make us very predictable and (b) not reward effort by other players to get out on their own.

BenDoolan · Post by **BenDoolan** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:12 pm

swoodley wrote:
BenDoolan wrote:
Essendon4eva wrote:Our medfielders are the reaosn Johns hasn't been effective. With lloyd and Lucas in the side, that group try adn get them the ball. When Lloyd is out they all try and get Lucas the ball, because it s in thier mind that he is our only goal kicker.

At the end of the day the medfield group doesn't have faith in Johns.
Perhaps they are under instruction. Have you thought of that?
It would be a very poor set of instructions that tell players to just kick it to Lloyd or Lucas. That would (a) make us very predictable and (b) not reward effort by other players to get out on their own.

I think the common plan of attack would be to look for Lucas - Lloyd - then Johns. When you have one of the most consistent forwards of the last two years in Lucas, and one of the most dangerous forwards of the modern game in Lloyd, then it's no wonder Johns is left out in the cold most of the time. If the midfield wasn't under instruction, and they chose to ignore Johns in a better position, then surely the coach would rip them off the ground and give them a blast.

Anyway, we can chat about this while we're out in the middle putting together another big partnership in the BTCL tonight!

robrulz5 · Post by **robrulz5** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:18 pm

Staggy wrote:
With the kicking - the midfielders just won't kick it to him, its not that they can't, its that they won't. If they isolated him one out in the square or kicked it to him when he was on a lead the kid would kick a bag.

True. When he was one out against Collingwood late last year he kicked a couple of very good goals and was even able to create a few.

swoodley · Post by **swoodley** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:37 pm

BenDoolan wrote:
swoodley wrote:
BenDoolan wrote:
Essendon4eva wrote:Our medfielders are the reaosn Johns hasn't been effective. With lloyd and Lucas in the side, that group try adn get them the ball. When Lloyd is out they all try and get Lucas the ball, because it s in thier mind that he is our only goal kicker.

At the end of the day the medfield group doesn't have faith in Johns.
Perhaps they are under instruction. Have you thought of that?
It would be a very poor set of instructions that tell players to just kick it to Lloyd or Lucas. That would (a) make us very predictable and (b) not reward effort by other players to get out on their own.
I think the common plan of attack would be to look for Lucas - Lloyd - then Johns. When you have one of the most consistent forwards of the last two years in Lucas, and one of the most dangerous forwards of the modern game in Lloyd, then it's no wonder Johns is left out in the cold most of the time. If the midfield wasn't under instruction, and they chose to ignore Johns in a better position, then surely the coach would rip them off the ground and give them a blast.

Anyway, we can chat about this while we're out in the middle putting together another big partnership in the BTCL tonight!

And if we don't finish it then, well we can do it having a few celebratory coldies in the bar afterwards

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:45 am

Removed

tonysoprano · Post by **tonysoprano** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:48 am

BenDoolan wrote: I think the common plan of attack would be to look for Lucas - Lloyd - then Johns.

I think the common plan of attack should be to look for someone in a red and black jumper!!

Johns is good - but like all big forwards needs someone to get him the pill to him. He is leading, marking, and kicking well whenever the midfield try to get it to him - it just doesn't happen often enough.

nudder12 · Post by **nudder12** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:36 am

Just thinking out loud here really, butttt...

Most people say Johns does well when the ball is kicked to him, and I agree.

A lot also say no one will kick it to him, and I probably agree with that too.

The question is - why?

And I wonder if the commentators have got it right. And I have to rely on the commentators because I can't get to games coz I live too far away, but anyway I digress. A number of times this year I've heard commentators say Johns looks lazy. If they're right, then it all makes sense - he isn't presenting, so that's why no one kicks it to him .When he does, they do, and he looks OK.

Perhaps he's still living in VFL land when he's playing AFL and thinks things will just happen for him without working hard?

Thoughts?

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Is He the Messiah? Or Just a Naughty Boy

Is He the Messiah? Or Just a Naughty Boy

Re: Is He the Messiah? Or Just a Naughty Boy