Interesting article Filthy but I can't see how you connect Sheeds getting pace into the team and the injuries we've had to reach a conclusion that Horsburgh is going to give Sheeds the flick.
Also, re the drafting of Gumbleton versus Selwood...I'm pretty sure that the majority of posters on here were pretty happy with that decision. At the time the talk was of the choice between Gibbs, Gumby and Hansen...I might be wrong, but I don't recall anyone pushing for Selwood (who went at 7 and was passed over by four other clubs after us). The proof of that particular pudding will not be in who gets the rising star this year but who turns out to be the better player after the next ten years. At this stage I'm happy to have Gumby.
Don't forget, Selwood is currently playing as part of one of the best midfield groups going around and so his transition has been a lot easier than, for example, Gibbs.
Don't forget Des Hedland was a star at Brisbane but has only been an ordinary footballer at Fremantle (after he was out from behind Brisbane's fab four)
The Coach, our drafting and Heath Hocking
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Windy_Hill
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Filthy, as usual, eloquently put.
I feel that Sheedy is safe for another two years and frankly he should be given this latitude. I always felt that 8-10 games would be a great result this year and thats about where we will finish.
I have seen enough to put away the glasses for season 2007 to know that we wil be a definite Top 4 contender next year.
The Coach is probably the Man for the Moment.
Gumby, well, who can tell whether this was a moment of inspiration or another wasted pick. What we do know is that Lloyd and Lucas are probably good for another three years and thus the need to find a long term Key Forward. Gumby was the best available when our number came up. As the wise men say, "tall players never get any shorter as the game goes on, but fast players only slow down".
I feel that Sheedy is safe for another two years and frankly he should be given this latitude. I always felt that 8-10 games would be a great result this year and thats about where we will finish.
I have seen enough to put away the glasses for season 2007 to know that we wil be a definite Top 4 contender next year.
The Coach is probably the Man for the Moment.
Gumby, well, who can tell whether this was a moment of inspiration or another wasted pick. What we do know is that Lloyd and Lucas are probably good for another three years and thus the need to find a long term Key Forward. Gumby was the best available when our number came up. As the wise men say, "tall players never get any shorter as the game goes on, but fast players only slow down".
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Boyler_Room
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There were a few pushing for Selwood if you crawl back through the archives.
I was always of the belief that your #1 pick should be to select the best player available at that pick, and then aim to pick up your deficient areas with the rest, so if you're looking for height or a backline etc etc.
In a draft like the last one, why isn't the #2 draft pick playing yet? Carlton in 2 drafts have completely renovated their midfield, with ready made players. Geelong picked Selwood, who is starring in his first year. Richmond picked up Deledio in his year, who won the rising star and was outstanding in his first year.
Looking at our draftees from 2006, the only 2 that haven't played senior footy are Reimers and Gumbleton. I can understand why people are a little ticked off with our drafting, particularly when we "appear" to have a huge stock of key position forwards... and a few backmen, although without Fletcher that area of the ground suddenly looks to be lacking.
I was always of the belief that your #1 pick should be to select the best player available at that pick, and then aim to pick up your deficient areas with the rest, so if you're looking for height or a backline etc etc.
In a draft like the last one, why isn't the #2 draft pick playing yet? Carlton in 2 drafts have completely renovated their midfield, with ready made players. Geelong picked Selwood, who is starring in his first year. Richmond picked up Deledio in his year, who won the rising star and was outstanding in his first year.
Looking at our draftees from 2006, the only 2 that haven't played senior footy are Reimers and Gumbleton. I can understand why people are a little ticked off with our drafting, particularly when we "appear" to have a huge stock of key position forwards... and a few backmen, although without Fletcher that area of the ground suddenly looks to be lacking.
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It's a matter of having faith in the club's processes. We've had remarkable success since Sheedy has had the reins, so I we need to believe in the systems he has in place. Gumby has done NOTHING so far, but everyone touted him as a star, so I think we were entitled to draft him at number two. As for
It's a matter of having faith in the club's processes. We've had remarkable success since Sheedy has had the reins, so we need to believe in the systems he has in place. Gumby has done NOTHING so far, but everyone touted him as a star, so I think we were entitled to draft him at number two. As for Selwood, he's had a remarkable year, but plays in a team which has got plent of stars in the midfield. For example, James Kelly starts on the bench and he would be Essedon's best midfielder. Having one or two gun midfielders makes those around them play better.
I think we need an evaluation of players of where they really stand. Im all for nurturing players, but I feel have some efflated reputations because they play for Essendon. New coach? Only time will tell.
I think we need an evaluation of players of where they really stand. Im all for nurturing players, but I feel have some efflated reputations because they play for Essendon. New coach? Only time will tell.
The talls we've recruited early in the last four drafts are Laycock, Bradley, ryder, gumbleton. Laycock and Ryder are looking like guns, Gumbleton is extremely highly rated, and Bradley has way more upside than Kane Tenace (who we would have taken otherwise).
In last year's draft, we also got Hislop and Jetta (both ranked in the top 5 midfielders by the experts). Add to that Winderlich, Stanton, Monfries and Dempsey to round out our top 20 picks for the last four years.
Since 2002 we've been extremely shrewd and it's a real challenge looking through those drafts and trying to find players drafted after ours that you'd prefer to have. Unfortunately, we're still burning from earlier years when we drafted like dogs.
I agree we've got big guys coming out of our proverbials this year, but over the next four years we're going to lose 4 gun KPPs: Fletcher, Lloyd, Lucas, Michael. We're in a very lucky position in that we have a succession plan in place with Ryder, Laycock, Johns, Gumby, Bradley, Lee and Neagle waiting in the wings. Not all of them will make it, but within that group is the spine of our next premiership.
In my opinion, Sheedy brilliantly architected this team for the future. He's spent four years drafting a spine (which takes longer to develop) and then amped up the drafting of the mids. In 2010, by which stage Lloyd and Lucas will be on their last legs and Fletcher will be a fond memory, we'll have a bunch of 22-25 year old replacements ready to go.
If Sheedy does go, I think there'd be a lot of candidates out there with their hands up for the job based on the potential of this list.
In last year's draft, we also got Hislop and Jetta (both ranked in the top 5 midfielders by the experts). Add to that Winderlich, Stanton, Monfries and Dempsey to round out our top 20 picks for the last four years.
Since 2002 we've been extremely shrewd and it's a real challenge looking through those drafts and trying to find players drafted after ours that you'd prefer to have. Unfortunately, we're still burning from earlier years when we drafted like dogs.
I agree we've got big guys coming out of our proverbials this year, but over the next four years we're going to lose 4 gun KPPs: Fletcher, Lloyd, Lucas, Michael. We're in a very lucky position in that we have a succession plan in place with Ryder, Laycock, Johns, Gumby, Bradley, Lee and Neagle waiting in the wings. Not all of them will make it, but within that group is the spine of our next premiership.
In my opinion, Sheedy brilliantly architected this team for the future. He's spent four years drafting a spine (which takes longer to develop) and then amped up the drafting of the mids. In 2010, by which stage Lloyd and Lucas will be on their last legs and Fletcher will be a fond memory, we'll have a bunch of 22-25 year old replacements ready to go.
If Sheedy does go, I think there'd be a lot of candidates out there with their hands up for the job based on the potential of this list.
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Mrs Mercuri
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Great point... we actually have a pretty good list of young and experienced guys. Any potential coach would love to have the list we have, with or without Hirdy. As to the Selwood thing, yes he is good now but Gumbleton will be better in a few years, the big guys ned longer to develop. Its better to get the young tall now while the good drafts come. Good midfielders are easier to find, plus we have our own slection at the moment. (Gus, Houli, Stants, Hocking, Rama, Watson, Licha etc...)andrewb wrote:The talls we've recruited early in the last four drafts are Laycock, Bradley, ryder, gumbleton. Laycock and Ryder are looking like guns, Gumbleton is extremely highly rated, and Bradley has way more upside than Kane Tenace (who we would have taken otherwise).
In last year's draft, we also got Hislop and Jetta (both ranked in the top 5 midfielders by the experts). Add to that Winderlich, Stanton, Monfries and Dempsey to round out our top 20 picks for the last four years.
Since 2002 we've been extremely shrewd and it's a real challenge looking through those drafts and trying to find players drafted after ours that you'd prefer to have. Unfortunately, we're still burning from earlier years when we drafted like dogs.
I agree we've got big guys coming out of our proverbials this year, but over the next four years we're going to lose 4 gun KPPs: Fletcher, Lloyd, Lucas, Michael. We're in a very lucky position in that we have a succession plan in place with Ryder, Laycock, Johns, Gumby, Bradley, Lee and Neagle waiting in the wings. Not all of them will make it, but within that group is the spine of our next premiership.
In my opinion, Sheedy brilliantly architected this team for the future. He's spent four years drafting a spine (which takes longer to develop) and then amped up the drafting of the mids. In 2010, by which stage Lloyd and Lucas will be on their last legs and Fletcher will be a fond memory, we'll have a bunch of 22-25 year old replacements ready to go.
If Sheedy does go, I think there'd be a lot of candidates out there with their hands up for the job based on the potential of this list.
I remember people getting into hawthorn for picking Roughead and Buddyego. I was at the game today and I can tell you ATM that decision was 100% correct.
We made the correct choice for the future. Selwood look very good now when noone is available to tag him, I remember how good headland looked at Brisbane.......
We made the correct choice for the future. Selwood look very good now when noone is available to tag him, I remember how good headland looked at Brisbane.......
Selwood aint no Headland. I've said it before and I'll say it again, he will win a brownlow. I've played against this guy and he is a total freak. Here's the scary thing, Selwood played next to no football last year. People talk about the Pendlebury's and co. but this is Selwoods first season back from a serious injury and look how well he's tearing it up.
As for Jetta I wouldn't have had him best on in the 2's but I still agree we need him in the side.
As for Jetta I wouldn't have had him best on in the 2's but I still agree we need him in the side.
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j-mac31
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My brother would not shut up about Selwood, in fact he was going on about him the year before, but he left Bombertalk ages ago.
I agree with Filthy. I can see why you'd say get Gumbleton, especially after looking at Hawthorn, but there are already plenty of tall options, including young ones (Bradley, Johns, Neagle, Ryder, Lee could all play forward). How many did Hawthorn have? Plus its not as if Lloyd and Lucas are leaving next year.
If we were going to get a tall it probably should have been Hansen, who may develop into a very good tall defender, which is probab;y a more pressing need than tall forward, considering that we really only have Fletcher and Micahel. Ryder was unexpected, but I still don't think he is good enough yet to be a key position defender. He can take taller quys who are quick, but his spoiling is generally pretty weak and I think he would get pushed around by the big guys.
And of course Sheeds didn't want to play Lee last year and not at all in defence after his first 3/4 of a game (let's bring in Reynolds to play on Fevola with Fletcher out, because he's the next best full back on the list) and now he isn't doing to well with form and injuries (although I though he di OK this week).
I agree with Filthy. I can see why you'd say get Gumbleton, especially after looking at Hawthorn, but there are already plenty of tall options, including young ones (Bradley, Johns, Neagle, Ryder, Lee could all play forward). How many did Hawthorn have? Plus its not as if Lloyd and Lucas are leaving next year.
If we were going to get a tall it probably should have been Hansen, who may develop into a very good tall defender, which is probab;y a more pressing need than tall forward, considering that we really only have Fletcher and Micahel. Ryder was unexpected, but I still don't think he is good enough yet to be a key position defender. He can take taller quys who are quick, but his spoiling is generally pretty weak and I think he would get pushed around by the big guys.
And of course Sheeds didn't want to play Lee last year and not at all in defence after his first 3/4 of a game (let's bring in Reynolds to play on Fevola with Fletcher out, because he's the next best full back on the list) and now he isn't doing to well with form and injuries (although I though he di OK this week).
Aaron Francis is the Messiah.
I am completely revising my opinin. Walls wrote an article in the paper today saying the asme thing, I must be wrong.Sismis wrote:I remember people getting into hawthorn for picking Roughead and Buddyego. I was at the game today and I can tell you ATM that decision was 100% correct.
We made the correct choice for the future. Selwood look very good now when noone is available to tag him, I remember how good headland looked at Brisbane.......
I'm not saying Selwood is shit. But he is yet to face a tag and has a lot of support around him. it is very early to se how he'll go in the AFL.
Gumbleton, was the right choice for mine. He seems to me to ba a player you can build a list around. He will have the ideal development with some of the best mentors in the game and the luxury of time.
His body is still developing and it is not out of the question that he could still grow taller!
The policy of taking the best player regardless of postion is a good one. Our other picks have been based on midfield and we look to have some likely types.
If Selwwod is going to win a brownlow, chalk Gumby up for a Coleman, some anzac day medals a norm-smith and a few premiership medals.
Gumbleton, was the right choice for mine. He seems to me to ba a player you can build a list around. He will have the ideal development with some of the best mentors in the game and the luxury of time.
His body is still developing and it is not out of the question that he could still grow taller!
The policy of taking the best player regardless of postion is a good one. Our other picks have been based on midfield and we look to have some likely types.
If Selwwod is going to win a brownlow, chalk Gumby up for a Coleman, some anzac day medals a norm-smith and a few premiership medals.
Selwood is a ripper and is definitely no headland. He gets right in under the rucks and gets his own ball. Poise, decision making, skills, class, grunt. He'll probably start getting tagged this year if not next.
BUT... if Gumby is as good as he's been rated, he'll be a more "valuable" player. Plus, we picked up hislop, jetta and houli so I think we'll be right in the middle. You weren't going to get a gumby with pick #18.
BUT... if Gumby is as good as he's been rated, he'll be a more "valuable" player. Plus, we picked up hislop, jetta and houli so I think we'll be right in the middle. You weren't going to get a gumby with pick #18.
I never said you said he was shit Sismis. But what a lot of people forget is Joel was touted as the number 1 pick by a mile before he was injured. He lead the Australian U/18 team in Ireland when he was an "underage" player. Gumby may be a star but at the time I was screaming for Selwood over every other player in the draft. He will be the pick of the draft I have no doubts, lets just hope Gumby becomes the number 2 pick.Sismis wrote:I'm not saying Selwood is shit. But he is yet to face a tag and has a lot of support around him. it is very early to se how he'll go in the AFL.
Gumbleton, was the right choice for mine. He seems to me to ba a player you can build a list around. He will have the ideal development with some of the best mentors in the game and the luxury of time.
His body is still developing and it is not out of the question that he could still grow taller!
The policy of taking the best player regardless of postion is a good one. Our other picks have been based on midfield and we look to have some likely types.
If Selwwod is going to win a brownlow, chalk Gumby up for a Coleman, some anzac day medals a norm-smith and a few premiership medals.
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CameronClayton
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Yeah, not too sure what to read into Gibbs this season. A couple of interesting things to add:BenDoolan wrote:It is only my opinion, but I reckon Selwood is better than Gibbs, and always will be.
1. He's one of the youngest draftees (born 03/89 - only turned eighteen in march)
2. He's getting an education in the backline this year and read somewhere that he has held opponents pretty well (13 goals kicked on him in 12 games or something) while creating a bit, too.
He does look a little lost at times but he has great poise and skills. I think he'll come good. That said, Selwood looks like a superstar and I think you're probably on the money.
I also like the look of Travis Boak, Mitch Brown, Ricky Petterd and Justin Westhoff (steal of the draft for mine at #71). Port would be pretty happy with their drafting so far... Boak, Krakouer, Gray and Westhoff have all played, and played pretty well. Does anyone know who does their recruiting? Pearce was a super pick last year as well.
I have to admit that I haven't seen these guys all too often. It is just an opinion based on very limited time I have viewed them. But, according to the hype Gibbs received prior to the draft that "he was a ready made player" is obviously over the top. He's gotta learn just like every other kid.andrewb wrote:Yeah, not too sure what to read into Gibbs this season. A couple of interesting things to add:BenDoolan wrote:It is only my opinion, but I reckon Selwood is better than Gibbs, and always will be.
1. He's one of the youngest draftees (born 03/89 - only turned eighteen in march)
2. He's getting an education in the backline this year and read somewhere that he has held opponents pretty well (13 goals kicked on him in 12 games or something) while creating a bit, too.
He does look a little lost at times but he has great poise and skills. I think he'll come good. That said, Selwood looks like a superstar and I think you're probably on the money.
I also like the look of Travis Boak, Mitch Brown, Ricky Petterd and Justin Westhoff (steal of the draft for mine at #71). Port would be pretty happy with their drafting so far... Boak, Krakouer, Gray and Westhoff have all played, and played pretty well. Does anyone know who does their recruiting? Pearce was a super pick last year as well.