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Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:21 pm
by BERT
I see your point Filth but I'm really feeling for the North supporters. I work with a mad North supporter who is gutted. He thinks they will go it alone and hopefully they will go ok.
You have to think what if it was Essendon in that situation? I would be at AFL house with a baseball bat and you would be too.
They need to be given a chance and the AFL has regneged on part of the deal. How they can try and make a club go when they haven't made a deal on the stadium is wrong. It's where half the money is suppose to come from.
Stick it up them North. Tell Vlad to F off.
The Gold Coast hasn't ever had a successful team in any national comp. They have all gone belly up.
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:27 pm
by sash
I reckon it's time for Kangaroos to move, just my opinion altho if they stay I will be happy for those die-hard supporters. Much like a close family friend of mine who is a huge North Melbourne fan/member (add fan Brayshaw to that too). We've had few good conversation's on this and she obviously really wants the club to stay and keep its heritage and roots. She has written letters and what not, got more memberships.
But I still feel from a business point of view they should move up to the Gold Coast. Victoria is too populated and Gold Coast is growing and can make more money there. Were as if they stay here they will just be trying to keep at balance. And I'm not an fan of the 17th club idea.
As she said she would still support the Kangaroos but it will never be the same again. That passion, support and I'm sure there are other North supporters just the same and will be sad on their behalf, but none the less I believe from a utilitarianism point of view it seems the best option even though those north die-hard supporters will be lost.
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:12 pm
by Madden
This whole 'they need to move in order to prosper' mentality is just so ridiculous.
They don't need to prosper at all. They just need to keep their heads above water. The competition is not a capitalist system where the strong thrive and the weak fall by the wayside. It is fundamentally socialist, where the AFL helps to prop up struggling clubs. I have no problem with them continuing to do that.
And if with that assistance, they can keep their heads just above water into the future, then great they should stay. The Brayshaw plan seems to indicate that they would be able to just survive without AFL assistance, and that would be great too.
Once again, as long as they can physically survive, even if they go from year to year just by the skin of their teeth, then they should definately stay. The comp is not about prospering financially, it is about winning football games. If they are doing that, and just surviving, then good on em.
The AFL are trying to blackmail them into a move, without even telling them what the stadium deal is. F**k that. The primary reason why the Kangas are struggling in the first place is because they are getting bent over on their Telstra Dome deal. And the AFL want them to jump in blindly into a new and yet unknown stadium deal - who is to say it will be any better?
Also, there is no harm in staying and trying for a year or so. If for some reason, in a year they have discovered that the Brayshaw plan doesn't work - they could easily still go to the AFL in a year and say they have now decided that they want to go - and the AFL would still take them in with open arms - they don't want a 17th team either.
F**k em Kangas. Stay here - and I tell you what - I hope that if its not us to win the fkag next year, I hope its the Kangas that win it just to stick it up the AFL.
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:21 pm
by ealesy
Screw North, screw their supporters and most of all screw that AFL.
Screw North...they've had opportunity after opportunity to turn the club around and try and make it financially viable. Hell if they weren't able to do it of the back of the 96 and 99 Premierships with the marketability of the one of the all-time greats as captain then when the hell will they be able to do it?
What do they think the AFL and successful clubs should just financially prop them up with handouts year after year??!!
Screw their supporters...geez you think that after being so periously close to merging with Fitzroy in 96 they would have got it through their thick skulls that they were going have to dig in to their pockets and shell out the money to buy memberships and merchandise to try and help the club become financially viable.
Now they've been offered with an ultimatum from the AFL they are bleating about giving the club one more year to turn it around. WTF??!!
Screw the AFL...could have allowed North and Fitzroy to merge in 96 like they were try to organise. Instead the AFL blocked it and allowed the Brisbane Bears to swop in complete a hostile takeover and rape and pillage the once proud Fitzroy Football Club and leave it carcass rotting at the Brunswick Street Oval. Merger my arse...all but tokenism makes everyone well aware that the team in Brisbane called the Lions is nothing more than the Bears that the AFL bent over backwards to make successful to try and force the game into the hearts and souls of Queenslanders.
Now they want to do they exact same thing again. God help us when they want a second team in Sydney, they will pretty much rig it so that they went 10 Flags in a row.
But not only that, they are going to try and kill off a historical victorian club in Order to 'expand the brand' and get a 2nd team in Queensland. However, they go to all this effort to initimidate and force the club into relocation but can't even get a f****** stadium deal signed of in the time they given the club to make a decision about their own future.
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:21 pm
by Megan
What Bert said.
I hope like crazy North are capable of getting through this, like Hawks and Dees did in ... 1997 was it?
Qld can't even support the Lions when they're not winning, what gives the AFL the idea they want another team?
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:36 pm
by ealesy
It is always fun to remind the Dawkthorn supporters on Bigfooty that 30% of their members voted to kill their club and merge with Melbourne.
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:39 pm
by doogle
Moved up from Vicco to the Goldie 3 years ago.
Nobody gives a stuff about afl here.
The ex-vics like me aren't going to change their team.
I went to a Lions reserves match v Broadbeach. 2 men and his dog were there.
12,000 max for an afl match.
Everybody just goes to the beach, fishing, golf etc.
I haven't had a conversation about afl with anyone here except ex viccos.
It is not the Holy Grail.
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:52 pm
by Megan
Doogle, AFL gets a far better turnout in Tassie, don't see them pushing for a team to move down here tho
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:48 am
by ealesy
Megan wrote:Doogle, AFL gets a far better turnout in Tassie, don't see them pushing for a team to move down here tho
Umm...Tassie Hawks.
Record a $3.6 million dollar profit this year off the back of getting $3 million from the Tassie State Government (for selling FOUR "HOME" GAMES) and selling an asset for $550K.
Yep really impressive Dawks!!!
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:31 am
by keri
He did at least say that they needed to run it better - and that on-field success wasn't enough.
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:27 pm
by dom_105
I don't trust Demetriou as far as I can throw the fat prick.
At this very moment, I havn't heard a compelling arguement as to how either North Melbourne, or as it turns out, the 17th team is going to work on the Gold Coast.
Brisbane were based on the Gold Coast and failed like every other Gold Coast club in a national competition. Oakley was very lucky that Pelerman came out of nowhere and poured millions into that club to fix the mess that Skase left when he shot through. If he didn't, I can say without question that Brisbane wouldn't exist today.
Yeah, that was 10 years ago, but what has changed on the Gold Coast? It's still League territory, Carrara is still a hole. Yeah, it might be the fastest growing region in Australia but so what? If they collectively don't give a shit about Australian football, that's not going to change overnight.
What is this new pet project of the AFL going to cost us, at a club level. How many of our players/supporter staff etc. are they going to nick?
If we get beaten by the Gold Coast Whatever's in a Grand Final 5 years down the track because Vlad thinks it's a good idea to make this club super successful through draft picks, salary cap allowances and the like, I will be mighty pissed off.
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:31 pm
by MH_Bomber
What I dont get is why there there is this constant obsession with "growing" the brand (I have always thought that sounded grammatically incorrect like growing the economy - but anyway I digress).
The AFL is getting close to $1 billion bucks for the TV rights over 5 years. That is mega bucks as far as I am concerned. I dont want a 17th team. I dont want byes as well as a stupid system where no-one plays everyone twice.
Solution ;
1) Get rid of pre-season comp
2) Make it a 30 week home and away
3) Have a final 5 (i.e. dispense with meaningless 7 and 8 finals)
4) Increase the list size so there can be less turn around in game days.
5) While your at all this bring back the reserves for every team
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:38 pm
by nomolos
Better places that are more deserving of an AFL team than the Gold Coast.
Dont mind the bye system it give the players a weeks rest they ordinarily wouldnt have.
Which is worth gold in todays game.
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:45 pm
by grassy1
I don't want to have to post this twice.Anyone interested ,can see my views on this c/0 -
http://www.footygoss.com
' then FOOTYCHAT,AFL,Gold Coast......
Suffice to say,that the AFL'S Usual MY WAY or the HIGHWAY approach got exactly what it DESERVED.
NO!
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:59 pm
by Megan
Easley, adding "Tassie" onto your name - and I might add only the name you use here, not the one you bother with anywhere else - does not make you a Tasmanian team.
The AFL are not pushing Hawks to relocate and become the Tasmanian Hawks. They're just happy to pimp them down here to make the money.
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:10 pm
by grassy1
There's that word,MONEY.
For all the AFL's SPIN on GRASS ROOTS,FAMILIES,WOMEN, DEVELOPMENT and SPREADING THE GAME,the EXPOSURE is merely a FRONT for MONEY.SHITLOADS of it.
For them and their MEDIA MATES.Let's NOT KID OURSELVES otherwise.
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:32 pm
by F111
Pagan announced as on the new board.
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:32 pm
by dom_105
Interesting article from Crikey about the whole issue.
27. You're out: The AFL makes North Melbourne pay
Adam Schwab writes:
Like any bully keen to maintain their status, the AFL has acted quickly to punish North Melbourne for its disobedience in snubbing a Gold Coast move and opting to fight on. The AFL announced yesterday that North Melbourne would not be playing Brisbane in the NAB Cup at Carrara and their Community Camp would be shifted from the Gold Coast to Bairnsdale.
Everything at the AFL happens very quickly, and often with little explanation.
In fact, while willingly offering a $100 million-carrot to North Melbourne to move to the Gold Coast, the AFL has provided virtually no legitimate explanation to the public as to why a team on Gold Coast is actually a good thing. The closest came from Andrew Demetriou last week when he noted that:
"There's absolutely no doubt [that the Gold Coast] is the fastest-growing market in Australia, plus in western Sydney. [And that the AFL has] spent probably the best part of two years work on this, it's not something we've just jumped into."
Crikey contacted the AFL questioning whether a detailed financial analysis for the Gold Coast expansion had been prepared. AFL media chief, Patrick Keane, claimed that the AFL had spent several years working on various financial models, but refused to provide any additional information, noting that "the AFL doesn’t detail every part of its operation".
What is known publicly is that some time ago, the AFL commissioned a "Gold Coast Advisory Group" to investigate the feasibility of a Gold Coast team. Given the size of the AFL, and the importance of such a decision, one might expect that the study may have been conducted by the likes of McKinsey or Bain. Alas, it appears due diligence is not a concept which the AFL is overly familiar with.
Instead of appointing an expert independent body to investigate such a move, the AFL stacked the advisory board with people sympathetic to the Gold Coast cause.
The "Gold Coast Advisory Group" was headed by local lawyer and business advocate John Witheriff. Witheriff, is the managing partner of Minter Ellison’s Gold Coast office and holds various appointments on the Gold Coast, including Director of Commerce Queensland and Chairman of the Advisory Board to the Indy 300. Given his pro-Gold Coast and business links, it is inconceivable that Witheriff would find against a Gold Coast side.
Another member of the advisory group, former Brisbane Bears Chairman, Graeme Downie, is a director of Surfers Paradise Central Management, which, according to its website, is the "official management and marketing authority for Surfers Paradise".
The third member, Ross Oakley, had such a poor grasp of the passion of football fans that he received death threats and required armed guards during his tumultuous period as AFL CEO.
As expected, the Advisory Group recommended in late September that a team would prosper on the Gold Coast, ideally, if it were relocated from Melbourne.
If it exists, no financial evidence of the feasibility of a Gold Coast side has been made public. All that has been told to the public is that the Gold Coast is the fastest growing region in the country.
The problem with the "fast growing" claim is that it ignores the salient fact that the Gold Coast has a very low population base. In the last five years, the Gold Coast population has increased by 80,000. By contrast, between 2001 and 2006 Melbourne’s population increased by around 210,000. If population growth is the primary criteria for a new club, perhaps the AFL should consider moving the Lions back to Melbourne’s fast-growing Docklands.
A detailed analysis of the Gold Coast plan might be possible if the AFL releases its financial modelling, which of course it hasn’t. Cynics might suggest that the AFL is keeping the information private because any such modelling is scant and doesn’t necessarily prove a compelling case for the Gold Coast.
Meanwhile, the AFL has seemingly based its decision on the advice of a clearly biased and self-interested group which has not publicly released the reasons for its findings.
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:27 pm
by ealesy
Not really a surprise and I doubt North would be surprised. I mean James Brayshaw pretty much said they expected that the AFL would cut their involvement in the CG once they decided they did not want to move their.
They were always going to be punished when they did not cave into Andy D's desire.
The big news out of that story is that the AFL will cut their handouts if they continued to be privately owned by shareholders instead of members.
Seems the AFL does not really want 17 clubs, and are making sure that things are going to be as hard as possible for the Roos to survive in their current identity.
It's really up to the North supporters to put their money where their mouths are now, sign up and become members, go to the game, no more bullshite struggling to crack a crowd of 20,000 against other small Melbourne clubs or interstate teams.
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:03 pm
by jimmyc1985
ealesy wrote:The big news out of that story is that the AFL will cut their handouts if they continued to be privately owned by shareholders instead of members.
Something i've alluded to before myself, and is the main reason why i have no problem watching Norf shriveling up and dying in their current format.
Absolute pissants. Privately owned, yet hold out their hands every year for a big wad of AFL cash. Piss off you pauper mendicants.