Cousins

[Scott]

OK a Hypothetical question for you:

If Ben Cousins did not have the "off field" reputation he's got. And all things still the same i.e age etc etc, he just wanted to come to Victoria to play footy would you like Essendon to recruit him?

Or is the age factor a big point?

[Crazyman]

Whilst he was a quality player and I think he still would be with only one and bit years out (sorta like doing a knee and missing a season...), I would still say no...I don't think he will get more than 3 - 4 years and I would rather pick up a young gun (e.g. Prismall) that we know we can get a good 8-10 years out of...

[nmgilbert]

It's amazing that things don't look good for him isn't it. He is a quality player. I guess the message is being sent loud and clear to professional footballers these days - if you stuff up, your career could be over no matter how much you have to offer.

Would I take him though? If he had good character, yeah, it is always exciting to have a crack at the flag every year and with another star in the team you just never know! Periods where you're expected to finish low just aren't as fun for the supporter - it's better when you've got a bit of hope. I'm not saying he'd definitey win us a flag (or even get us close), but he'd probably help get us into the finals and get our young blokes some experience in the big games. And you just never know what we might do when we get there!!!

[Walda]

The club should recruit him, not because he will will us a flag, but for the young guns to learn how a champion trains, thinks about the game, moves (where to position yourself) and as the previous post says, gets us into the finals and finals experiance.

[bomberdonnie]

It wont happen... Get over it!

[Windy_Hill]

The club should recruit him, not because he will will us a flag, but for the young guns to learn how a champion trains, thinks about the game, moves (where to position yourself) and as the previous post says, gets us into the finals and finals experiance.

Somehow, I think we could find a better role model than Ben Cousins for our young guys.

[dom_105]

I have a better chance than he has of getting picked up and pulling on the red and black.

[ealesy]

The club should recruit him, not because he will will us a flag, but for the young guns to learn how a champion trains, thinks about the game, moves (where to position yourself) and as the previous post says, gets us into the finals and finals experiance.

Or he might not be over his issues, he might drag a couple of our young kids down the path he went and then we would really be up shit creek, nowhere near the risk for a player you admit will not win us a premiership.

[Megan]

I'm torn - I'd like to see him get a chance to redeem himself (with another club, thank you very much - I'm a believer in second chances just not at any risk to ME) but at the same time I think this is a great reminder to the kids coming into AFL now that yeah, drugs can be a massive career ender for Brownlow medalists - so what hope do YOU have, kiddo?

I have zero interest in taking him at Essendon tho, we're building a really tight group and we have a rep as being hard on our players, expecting them to behave - why ruin that now? Wasn't Zantuck bad enough?

[BenDoolan]

Very much looking forward to the day when he is permanently finished an AFL player and we don't have to put up with this constant drivel. Hopefully this day will happen soon.

[Windy_Hill]

He's gone - bad news for any club seriously interested. Sponsors will demand he is avoided at all cost. Some WAFL club will be running him around the park next season.

[Western Red]

He's gone - bad news for any club seriously interested. Sponsors will demand he is avoided at all cost. Some WAFL club will be running him around the park next season.

Great so he will be in the Red and Black anyway!!!!

[Scott]

Ok yep I understand people don't want him at essendon because of the drug thing. But thats wasn't the question.

If it was purely on his age alone and he was on the market. Would you recruit him?

[Madden]

I would pick him up in a heartbeat, even with his current issues.

People forget how good a player this guy actually was. Quite easily in the top 5 players in the competition when he stopped playing. He was heroic in both the West Coast Grand Finals. He would run so hard every game that he had to come off and vomit, and then he would run back out and go at it again. Won a Brownlow and was unlucky not to win another one or two. He is an absolute elite player. And even if he doesn't come back at that absolutely elite level, he would sill be a very very good player, and would be invaluable in teaching our next generation of midfielders.

In terms of his age, I would say that it is less of an issue because of how fit he is. Its well known that he was one of the absolute fittest players in the competition when he stopped playing. I don't doubt that he would have lost some of that fitness in the year he has had off - but I also don't doubt that he has the ability to regain it. Short of a major injury, I am certain that he would come back fit and be able to play for another 3 years at least.

In terms of the drug issue, the way I see it is that there are two arguments. I'll respond to them in turn.

1. "We shouldn't recruit him because there's a risk he will get back on the drugs"

A: As far as I am concerned this is a non-issue with the testing regime. He is required to get tested 3 times a week and also to grow his hair and get that tested regularly. If he re-offends then he gets caught out immediately, and he's gone. And it would be no great loss - we would only have to give up our pre-season pick to get him. Or, the more likely scenario is that he knows he is going to be tested and therefore doesn't get back on the gear. Non issue.

2. "We shouldn't recruit him because when he gets back on the gear he will lead our young players astray".

A: Firstly, I think the risk of him getting back on the gear is low (see above), but secondly, I think this argument is ridiculously simplistic and doesn't give our players enough credit. Cousins' addiction and fall from grace has been so widely documented and publicised that it is ridiculous - even if he got back on the gear, do you really think that any of our players would be so stupid as to follow him? When they have seen all that he has gone through? It would be very unlikely to happen, and even it it did happen, the player would have to be so stupid or irresponsible that it is highly likely that he would have gone off the rails anyway, with or without Cousins.

I'd be absolutely rapt if Essendon decided to pick him up.

[BenDoolan]

I'm afraid it doesn't matter what we think or in fact what the club thinks. Sponsors hold the key in this decision. If they say we do not want our name/brand associated with this bloke, then the club has no option but to baulk at any suggestion to recruit him. Well the club does have an option....they could recruit him regardless, and risk having copiuous amounts of sponsorship money go down the gurglar.

He simply isn't worth it. He won't teach anyone a F****** thing about playing footy. We've been down this track before. James Hird was at the club for 15 years and what exactly did he pass on to our current crop of midfielders?

[Madden]

He simply isn't worth it. He won't teach anyone a F****** thing about playing footy. We've been down this track before. James Hird was at the club for 15 years and what exactly did he pass on to our current crop of midfielders?

James Hird was naturally talented, you can't just pass that on. Cousins got to the top of the mountain because he trained the hardest, and was dedicated enough to get his body to its absolute peak condition. His work ethic was amazing.

You can't pass on talent, but you can pass on work ethic and all that goes along with that.

Just because Gary Ablett Snr couldn't teach you how to play doesn't mean that Leigh Matthews couldn't. If players are actually unable to pass down skills to other players then why do we have skills coaches? Why do we have coaches at all? Ridiculous argument.

[BenDoolan]

He simply isn't worth it. He won't teach anyone a F****** thing about playing footy. We've been down this track before. James Hird was at the club for 15 years and what exactly did he pass on to our current crop of midfielders?

James Hird was naturally talented, you can't just pass that on. Cousins got to the top of the mountain because he trained the hardest, and was dedicated enough to get his body to its absolute peak condition. His work ethic was amazing.

You can't pass on talent, but you can pass on work ethic and all that goes along with that.

Just because Gary Ablett Snr couldn't teach you how to play doesn't mean that Leigh Matthews couldn't. If players are actually unable to pass down skills to other players then why do we have skills coaches? Why do we have coaches at all? Ridiculous argument.

I think we disagreed on this point some time ago. James Hird worked very hard on his game, so I disagree. He trained himself to become the type of player he was. It did not come naturally to him at all. He had to work extremely hard to overcome injuries and to maintain a level of fitness, so if anything is ridiculous, it is the suggestion that it all came naturally to him. He set the example on how to impose yourself on every contest regardless of the size of the individual he was competing against. He never took a backward step and showed all and sundry what the true meaning of courage was. And he was one of the hardest ever workers on the training track. Fact.

Your arguments are a nonesense if you believe Ben Cousins was a manufactured talent (his own design) as opposed to James Hird who was simply born that way. If attitude counts for anything, then I’m afraid Hird craps all over Cousins in that department. Hird set the example of how to conduct yourself on the field and was simply inspirational. Ben Cousins plays for himself. As you say, you cannot teach other players talent, but you can influence those around you a certain attitude toward getting the best out of themselves. I do not see that in Cousins.

[swoodley]

He simply isn't worth it. He won't teach anyone a F****** thing about playing footy. We've been down this track before. James Hird was at the club for 15 years and what exactly did he pass on to our current crop of midfielders?

James Hird was naturally talented, you can't just pass that on. Cousins got to the top of the mountain because he trained the hardest, and was dedicated enough to get his body to its absolute peak condition. His work ethic was amazing.
You can't pass on talent, but you can pass on work ethic and all that goes along with that.

Just because Gary Ablett Snr couldn't teach you how to play doesn't mean that Leigh Matthews couldn't. If players are actually unable to pass down skills to other players then why do we have skills coaches? Why do we have coaches at all? Ridiculous argument.

You write that as if Hird never had to work on his game and that Cousins only got there because of his hard work...what a bizarre statement. Hird's work ethic was second to none at the club and was constantly referred to by younger players at the club.

Cousins was a a ready made footballer who also worked extremely hard and was probably more naturally talented than Hird.

[Madden]

Fair points both BD and Swoods.

However I still do think that it is silly to say that our mids would not learn anything from Cousins, and to use the fact that our current mids are not James Hird Jnr to back that argument up is a bit simplistic.

[Crazyman]

getting back to the actual question that was asked...

No, I would not take him based on age. As I have said, he was a great footballer and has only been out for a short time, but I think that we do have the people around the club that can show young fella's how to work hard to acheive results...

Given he is already early 30's as I have said, we will only get 3 maybe 4 years out of him and I would rather take another Prismall that we know we can get 8-10 years out of...