Bombertalk

The way I see our tall timber stacking up next year:

A Grade
Michael Hurley (back/forward)
Patty Ryder (ruck/forward)
Tayte Pears (back)
Dustin Fletcher (back)

B Grade
David Hille (ruck/forward)
Matthew Lloyd (forward)

C Grade
Hooker (back/ruck)
Neagle (forward)
Laycock (ruck/forward)
Gumbleton (back/forward)

D Grade
Bellchambers (ruck/forward)
Darcy Daniher (back/forward)

I'd like to see the following for the start of next year:

Fullback: Pears
Half-back flank: Fletcher
Centre half-back: Hurley
Ruck: Ryder
Centre hald-forward: Gumbleton
Fullforward: Lloyd
Forward pocket: Hille

Blokes like Hooker, Laycock, Daniher and Bellchamers are going to find it extremely difficuly to get a game next year. On performance, I'd argue that Neagle would struggle as well but clearly he is the one they are going with at this stage for teh fullforward position.

The above shows the problem that Matthew Lloyd playing on throws up, and clearly what Knights and his merry bunch of assistants are looking at. If you start Lloyd at fullforwward and Hille/Ryder in a pocket, it leaves Gumbleton and Neagle fighting for the final tall forward position. Gumbleton will be busting out of his skin next season to get out on the park.

Based on the above, I can't see Lloyd playing on at Essendon. I think he'll retire unfortunately. I hope he heads to Footscray.

As I said in the thread on Hooker, we are blessed with our talls at the moment.

To have Fletch available is a huge bonus.

IMHO, I would have something like this:

FB - Hurley
CHB - Hooker
CHF - Gumbleton
FF - Neagle

Floating in defence - Fletch (named at HBF)
Floating in attack - Lloyd (named at FP)

Playing an Adam Goodes type role - Ryder & Pears (both have good run and carry and I think both have the aerobic capacity and footy smarts to pull this role off)
Ruck - Hille with Ryder & Hooker to share the duties around the ground...

There are almost any number of possibilities, but whether we want Lloyd at FF or not is irrelevant because unless the kids are unavailable we all know that Knighta won't play him there...

Also, on Lloyd, I think it will be retire or play on, but as stated in the thread about Lloyd, I wouldn't blame him for going elsewhere (even if I don't like it...)

Before Hille went down he was definitely an A grader.

DC wrote:Before Hille went down he was definitely an A grader.

Absolutely. I guess we have to see how long it takes him to get back to his best.

I wouldn't give up on Daniher just yet. He did very well in the VFL up forward when you consider how atrocious the team was. If he can build up the body a bit, we could see him as a forward target next year, especially if Neagle can't have a break out year.

I can see Ryder playing a non KPP role. He is mobile and has shown this year how fit he is. Not to mention the fact he led our tackle count. Possibly on a wing, he would be extremely tough to match up.

For mine Hurley is ahead of Gumby as a forward.

I think it is a lovely problem to have.

Hurley is a CHF for sure. Will be better than Reiwoldt.

Gumby can suit himself...not putting him in any positions til he shows he can play more than 3 games.

Shit call on Hille... he is A grade.

nomolos wrote:Hurley is a CHF for sure. Will be better than Reiwoldt.

Gumby can suit himself...not putting him in any positions til he shows he can play more than 3 games.

Shit call on Hille... he is A grade.

Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.

gringo wrote:

nomolos wrote:Hurley is a CHF for sure. Will be better than Reiwoldt.

Gumby can suit himself...not putting him in any positions til he shows he can play more than 3 games.

Shit call on Hille... he is A grade.

Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.

Did you watch a single game last year? Hille was close the AA ruckman.

gringo wrote:

nomolos wrote:Hurley is a CHF for sure. Will be better than Reiwoldt.

Gumby can suit himself...not putting him in any positions til he shows he can play more than 3 games.

Shit call on Hille... he is A grade.

Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.

David Hille, as in last years Crichton medalist? How can you say any of those blokes have gone past him, when he hasn't been able to play a game in 6 months? Assuming his knee is alright, he will be next years best recruit.

danstar84 wrote:

gringo wrote:

nomolos wrote:Hurley is a CHF for sure. Will be better than Reiwoldt.

Gumby can suit himself...not putting him in any positions til he shows he can play more than 3 games.

Shit call on Hille... he is A grade.

Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.

Did you watch a single game last year? Hille was close the AA ruckman.

Floor.

Crying.

According to most people on this site, half our team is close to AA selection, but, strangely enough, no one ever makes it.

Hille has had one good season, without being excellent. His form this year prior to his injury was poor to average. He's got a big opportunity next year to stick himself in amongst the games' top ruckman, but at the moment, he's not in the elite, nor has ever been.

gringo wrote: Floor.

Crying.

According to most people on this site, half our team is close to AA selection, but, strangely enough, no one ever makes it.

Hille has had one good season, without being excellent. His form this year prior to his injury was poor to average. He's got a big opportunity next year to stick himself in amongst the games' top ruckman, but at the moment, he's not in the elite, nor has ever been.

It was touch and go between Hille and Sandilands for the second position on the bench. They went with Sandilands. Not our fault the selectors are cocks.

Not good enough for you hey, being in the three top ruckman in the comp? That doesn't count as an excellent season?

According to your idiotic standards, you would need to come home with the brownlow to have had an 'excellent' year.

gringo wrote:

danstar84 wrote:

gringo wrote:Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.

Did you watch a single game last year? Hille was close the AA ruckman.

Floor.

Crying.

According to most people on this site, half our team is close to AA selection, but, strangely enough, no one ever makes it.

Hille has had one good season, without being excellent. His form this year prior to his injury was poor to average. He's got a big opportunity next year to stick himself in amongst the games' top ruckman, but at the moment, he's not in the elite, nor has ever been.

So Hille isn't A Grade because in your view he has only ever had one good season....how then do you justify having Mitch Clark and Kruezer ahead of him?

Ottens has played 2 games this year and yet he is better than Hille?

Strange application of logic there gringo

swoodley wrote:Strange application of logic there gringo

Just for a change.

BTW I really like the thought of Hurley and Gumbleton up forward.
If Gumby turns out any good, that would take some stopping.

swoodley wrote:

gringo wrote:Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.
Did you watch a single game last year? Hille was close the AA ruckman

Floor.

Crying.

According to most people on this site, half our team is close to AA selection, but, strangely enough, no one ever makes it.

Hille has had one good season, without being excellent. His form this year prior to his injury was poor to average. He's got a big opportunity next year to stick himself in amongst the games' top ruckman, but at the moment, he's not in the elite, nor has ever been.

So Hille isn't A Grade because in your view he has only ever had one good season....how then do you justify having Mitch Clark and Kruezer ahead of him?

Ottens has played 2 games this year and yet he is better than Hille?

Strange application of logic there gringo

[/quote]

Not at all; Kruezer and Clark are two young ruckman on the up and up (hence Hurley has been included in my A grade list) whereas Hille has had 8 or so seasons to show his stuff. Thus far, he's shown he's a capable ruckman, without being anything special. I'd expect Kruezer and Clarke to be playing at an A grade level next year, and Hille at a B grade level (although I hope he steps up).

If that's strange logic, we clearly have a different understanding of the word.

gringo wrote:

swoodley wrote:

gringo wrote:Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.
Did you watch a single game last year? Hille was close the AA ruckman

Floor.

Crying.

According to most people on this site, half our team is close to AA selection, but, strangely enough, no one ever makes it.

Hille has had one good season, without being excellent. His form this year prior to his injury was poor to average. He's got a big opportunity next year to stick himself in amongst the games' top ruckman, but at the moment, he's not in the elite, nor has ever been.

So Hille isn't A Grade because in your view he has only ever had one good season....how then do you justify having Mitch Clark and Kruezer ahead of him?

Ottens has played 2 games this year and yet he is better than Hille?

Strange application of logic there gringo

Not at all; Kruezer and Clark are two young ruckman on the up and up (hence Hurley has been included in my A grade list) whereas Hille has had 8 or so seasons to show his stuff. Thus far, he's shown he's a capable ruckman, without being anything special. I'd expect Kruezer and Clarke to be playing at an A grade level next year, and Hille at a B grade level (although I hope he steps up).

If that's strange logic, we clearly have a different understanding of the word.[/quote]
You say that Hille has had 8 or so seasons to show his stuff and that "he's a capable ruckman, without being anything special" Kreuzer hasn't set the world on fire yet and Clark has done a Ryder and stepped into the breach when the Lion's main ruckmen went down. It seems to me that your giving more credence to their performances than what you are giving Hille, even though his last completed season saw him win the B & F.

Yes, that's strange logic to me.

swoodley wrote:Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.
Did you watch a single game last year? Hille was close the AA ruckman

Floor.

Crying.

According to most people on this site, half our team is close to AA selection, but, strangely enough, no one ever makes it.

Hille has had one good season, without being excellent. His form this year prior to his injury was poor to average. He's got a big opportunity next year to stick himself in amongst the games' top ruckman, but at the moment, he's not in the elite, nor has ever been.

So Hille isn't A Grade because in your view he has only ever had one good season....how then do you justify having Mitch Clark and Kruezer ahead of him?

Ottens has played 2 games this year and yet he is better than Hille?

Strange application of logic there gringo[/quote][/quote]

Not at all; Kruezer and Clark are two young ruckman on the up and up (hence Hurley has been included in my A grade list) whereas Hille has had 8 or so seasons to show his stuff. Thus far, he's shown he's a capable ruckman, without being anything special. I'd expect Kruezer and Clarke to be playing at an A grade level next year, and Hille at a B grade level (although I hope he steps up).

If that's strange logic, we clearly have a different understanding of the word.[/quote]
You say that Hille has had 8 or so seasons to show his stuff and that "he's a capable ruckman, without being anything special" Kreuzer hasn't set the world on fire yet and Clark has done a Ryder and stepped into the breach when the Lion's main ruckmen went down. It seems to me that your giving more credence to their performances than what you are giving Hille, even though his last completed season saw him win the B & F.

Yes, that's strange logic to me.[/quote]

That's not strange logic then; it's merely two different opinions.

gringo wrote:Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.

Kreuzer? Outstanding work once again gringo. Hille is twice the player Kreuzer is. Bigger, stronger, better kick, better overhead and a leader.
Clark - one good season, done f*ck all until now.

Ossie wrote:

gringo wrote:Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.

Kreuzer? Outstanding work once again gringo. Hille is twice the player Kreuzer is. Bigger, stronger, better kick, better overhead and a leader.
Clark - one good season, done f*ck all until now.

Essendon would swap Hille for either Kreuzer or Clark in a heartbeat. End of story.

gringo wrote:

Ossie wrote:

gringo wrote:Hille is close to A-grade but there are plenty of ruckman around who have surpassed him now. Aaron Sandilands, Dean Cox, Mitch Clark, Matthew Kreuzer, Brad Ottens, Darren Jolly...that's a third of the starting ruckmen right there.

Kreuzer? Outstanding work once again gringo. Hille is twice the player Kreuzer is. Bigger, stronger, better kick, better overhead and a leader.
Clark - one good season, done f*ck all until now.

Essendon would swap Hille for either Kreuzer or Clark in a heartbeat. End of story.

Perhaps, but only because they are younger so would be around longer and Hille is coming off a knee reco.
If he gets back to his 2008 form, he is better.