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Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:23 am
by hop
Couldn't agree more Filth!
It is the one obvous area we have been lacking in for many a year. Compare our younger guys to WCE, Brisbane, Adelaide, Cats, St Kilda and Hawthorn - we look so much smaller and less developed.
I've said it on another thread - that a consequence of our 'smaller bodies' blokes like Lloyd and Hille had to be the muscle bound enforcers - this has shortened one career and has stalled another.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:25 am
by Jazz_84
yep totally agree! in a GF most other teams will just monster us with harder hitting
Ryder - love to see him bulk up just a touch
Hurley - is naturally good and more strength will make him very very good
Hooker - bit more upper body would be handy
Pears - is fine for his game style
Neagle - ill be happy for him to trim down the fat and make him run all pre-season, worry about getting bigger later
Stanton - can't see him frame bulking up but would be nice and get him in the packs
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:47 am
by BenDoolan
Well you wouldn't call Gary Ablett, Jimmy Bartel, Joel Selwood muscle bound warriors. They are just f***'n good at what they do. They do have tremendous core strength to break tackles, but they are not "bulked up".
Who were the muscle bound heroes for Hawthorn last year?
Who were the muscle bound heroes for Sydney?
Everytime we bulk up, our blokes get injured due to impact injuries (Hird and Lloyd went through that phase). You add muscle and weight to Ryder, then his aerobic ability will be reduced, and he is likely to hurt himself more when he lands. Sure, tone up, but don't over do it.
The reason why Fletcher has played for 17 seasons without much mishap is because of his frame. He could go another 2 years easily. Fletch doesn't need bulk because he has brains.
Brains beats braun any day.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:47 am
by BenDoolan
Wow Filth, they have arms and legs! Muscle bound heroes? They are all class acts who know how to use the ball and dance their way around the field.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:59 am
by Jazz_84
look at these little arms and chests, Jobe is the only one there with decent arms, even his legs could be better for an in and under player that needs drive and power...
Matty Knights is bigger then 80% of our players
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:10 pm
by bomberdonnie
that is jimmy circa 07 GF
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:31 pm
by Windy_Hill
I notice our female BT'ers have just gone very quiet
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:53 pm
by Mrs Mercuri
Windy_Hill wrote:I notice our female BT'ers have just gone very quiet
haha
Just admiring the pictures!!!
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:53 pm
by Ossie
Jazz_84 wrote:look at these little arms and chests, Jobe is the only one there with decent arms, even his legs could be better for an in and under player that needs drive and power...
Matty Knights is bigger then 80% of our players
They're all kids though! None of those guys have been in the system (apart from Jobe) for more than about three years.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:17 pm
by boncer34
Looking at Selwood I'm suprised how little he's grown since they drafted him IMO. The bloke has always been untackleable (perfect english) he's just taken it to the AFL level.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:22 pm
by nmgilbert
I agree with Benny. Size counted yesterday because it was wet, windy and very congested football. The attribute that seemed to be most important was clean hands and good execution when you got your chances. The beefy Brisbane side of 2001-2003 got cut to shreds by the pacy and skillful Port Adelaide outfit in 2004. We probably need a little bit of size and strength through the core but there is no need whatsoever to go overboard. And this should be limited to the guys that don't rely on their pace to break games open.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:18 pm
by robbie67
Filth, none of the pictures you have shownmake those blokes lookk any bigger in the arms than Mrs Merc's picture of 18 year old Zaka. You dont need muscle bound super heros. You need fit blokes that can play footy. obviously they have to be strong enough that they cant be moved off the ball easily, but we dont to fall in tothe Collingwood trap of goingafter too many of these types, at the expense of skilled players. Give me the best 22 skinny indigionous players in the game, and I'd still give you a premiership.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:21 pm
by Jazz_84
Ossie wrote:
They're all kids though! None of those guys have been in the system (apart from Jobe) for more than about three years.
that's why this thread is happening now i suspect
teams like Adelaide/Carlton have young kids that are bigger then ours... this is a professional sport and need to stay at the peak of all aspects of the sport
i don't want to have big bastards or anything just fit and of decent size, a few kgs here and there isnt' going to create anymore injuries, can give certain players a bit more confidence aswell
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:33 pm
by robrulz5
Ablett is 88kg and Selwood is 86kgs and both are 182cm tall. I'd say that is fairly solid, Selwood may not have grown alot since he was drafted but he has put on lean muscle mass which will make him alot stronger than when he started.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:37 pm
by BenDoolan
Jobe Watson used to be thick set and heavier. He always broke down. Decided to get his frame into a trimmer state and has been utterly fantastic ever since. Brains beats braun.
Ceratin bloke will benefit from adding muscle - as Rob has pointed out with regard to not being knocked off the ball so easily, but most need to be careful of not overdoing it because their frame may cause them other problems.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:29 am
by gringo
We don't need more size.
We need more core strength and to harden up a bit.
Have a look at the Bulldogs Filthy. They are hardly a big team, yet they matched St Kilda and Geelong through the guts because they are hard at the ball/man and are strong.
Encouraging blokes to get big biceps and chests is one of the stupidest things I've heard. When do you use your chest in a game of AFL? You have a look at Reiwoldt - he's got f*** all upper body development, yet he's very strong. And what about matthew Scarlett adn Dustin Fletcher? Probably the best two fullbacks I've seen and hardly an ounce of muscle on them yet both are incredibly strong and regularly beat their opposition.
Selwood, Ablett and Bartel are extremeyl strong through the core. That's their great strength. They aren't just muscle bound rats.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:38 am
by billyduckworth
BenDoolan wrote:Jobe Watson used to be thick set and heavier. He always broke down. Decided to get his frame into a trimmer state and has been utterly fantastic ever since. Brains beats braun.
Ceratin bloke will benefit from adding muscle - as Rob has pointed out with regard to not being knocked off the ball so easily, but most need to be careful of not overdoing it because their frame may cause them other problems.
This. We need to be VERY careful we don't over do it.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:29 am
by gringo
Filthy wrote:gringo wrote:We don't need more size.
We need more core strength and to harden up a bit.
Have a look at the Bulldogs Filthy. They are hardly a big team, yet they matched St Kilda and Geelong through the guts because they are hard at the ball/man and are strong.
Encouraging blokes to get big biceps and chests is one of the stupidest things I've heard. When do you use your chest in a game of AFL? You have a look at Reiwoldt - he's got f*** all upper body development, yet he's very strong. And what about matthew Scarlett adn Dustin Fletcher? Probably the best two fullbacks I've seen and hardly an ounce of muscle on them yet both are incredibly strong and regularly beat their opposition.
Selwood, Ablett and Bartel are extremeyl strong through the core. That's their great strength. They aren't just muscle bound rats.
Its is finallly confirmed that you have never crossed a white line (apart from in the mens at a nightclub) or felt the heat.
I was always taught not to open your mouth on things you know about which only confirms that you know nothing about Football or preparing yourself to play.
I was coached by Tuddenham as a kid and he always told me:
- You need big shoulders, lats, biceps, triceps for tacking and bumping and conversely taking a big hit and surviving and breaking tackles.
- Big chest muscles are a natural part of the above. All AFL footballers should have the above. Trouble is some Clubs players have more than others and they survive long tough seasons and games better than the weaker.
- You need strong stomach muscles to gut run and to take hits in the lower body and survive.
- You need big quads for running endurance and to stand your ground in tackles, bumps and with your upper body strength to break said tackles, and give off.
You haven't got a clue sunshine.
Ha. You've truly been giving it a nudge over the weekend Filthy.
What do tricpes and biceps have to do with breaking tackles? Are blokes running around on their arms now? You need to have strong thighs and hips to break tackles. Try watchign Ablett or Jobe Watson.
The best thing Watson ever did for his career, and arguably it saved his career, was to drop a whole heap of muscle. Now he's one of the best extracators of the ball going around.
CORE STRENGTH IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT FILTHY!!!!
Big chests....
FLOOR.
CRYING.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:49 am
by MH_Bomber
I am with the core strength theory. Ablett's biggest asset is that he is able to keep his balance when tackled because he engages his considerable core strength and powers through the tackle. This also seems to enable him to change direction quickly while running away from someone. Something I have really noticed him doing a lot of and cant quite work how he does it.
I think it has to be a gradual build up. The big bodied Geelong have built themselves up over about 7 years.
Re: Gotta beef up.
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:01 pm
by boncer34
Filth I gotta ask why would you need huge arms unless your going to do the old palm off on a player trying to tackle? I was always taught when you pick the ball up off the deck to lift your arms above the tackle and thus keeping them free to be able to handpass or kick efficiently. It was the legs we were taught to use by powering through a tackle, its a theory that seems to have worked well me for and the other blokes I've played with pretty well.