Neagle

[boncer34]

Ok so as many of you know I do have a soft spot for the players that reguarly get bagged by our own fans, I mean just look at my wonderful attempts to start the Henno fan club.

But I do have to ask what exactly is it that Neagle did so wrong last night, except of course playing on and then dropping a sitter. Those 2 are clear enough without being pointed out but I'm curious as to what other mistakes he made? So far when I've spoken to people all I'm getting is that he's fat and slow.

He led pretty well last night, made a contest every time the ball came his way and brought it to ground well and he laid a couple of good strong tackles and bumps. Ok so he only got one goal which isn't a great return but he certainly wasn't horrible.

I read with amusement that some people rated Mark Williams as a good player last night, the bloke had less possies, less tackles and kicked less goals then Neagle and IMO I dont think he made as good a contest at the ball as Jay. Now I think Mark looked dangerous with the ball so I'm not saying he played poorly but I do think its a bit rough to rip into Jay because of 2 errors, how many players go through games without making 2 errors?

If I'm wrong then by all means give me some reasons, but please leave the "he's fat and slow" comments out because they really dont offer much insight as to why you think he played badly.

[jimmyc1985]

Well, being fat and slow doesn't help as a key forward and does partly explain why he's no good at the moment.

That aside, both his critical errors last night were potential 2 goal turnarounds - each time he should've been having a shot on goal, but instead Geelong swept the ball up the field on the back of his errors and kicked a goal. Kills us.

He doesn't lead all that well, nor anywhere near often enough because he ain't anywhere near fit enough.

The posts that are pillaging him, including mine, are probably borne out of the frustration that, as far as i can tell, he's gone nowhere since he debuted - he's still not fit enough, doesn't lead often enough, doesn't get enough of the ball and is prone to errors. When young players don't progress in 3 years, they start copping shit. He can either drop his head and he'll be out the door at year's end, or he can work hard to turn things around and become a decent player like Dyson, Winderlich, Watson etc. have when faced with simiar predicaments in their careers.

[robbie67]

but he certainly wasn't horrible.

Fat, skinny, slow, fast, gay, straight....all those things could be debated. What cant be denied was that he was most definately horrible. I guess it was compounded by the fact that both screw ups were so crucial in the context of the game, and go to the blokes mental fragility more than his skills.

[boncer34]

Well, being fat and slow doesn't help as a key forward and does partly explain why he's no good at the moment.

That aside, both his critical errors last night were potential 2 goal turnarounds - each time he should've been having a shot on goal, but instead Geelong swept the ball up the field on the back of his errors and kicked a goal. Kills us.

He doesn't lead all that well, nor anywhere near often enough because he ain't anywhere near fit enough.

The posts that are pillaging him, including mine, are probably borne out of the frustration that, as far as i can tell, he's gone nowhere since he debuted - he's still not fit enough, doesn't lead often enough, doesn't get enough of the ball and is prone to errors. When young players don't progress in 3 years, they start copping shit. He can either drop his head and he'll be out the door at year's end, or he can work hard to turn things around and become a decent player like Dyson, Winderlich, Watson etc. have when faced with simiar predicaments in their careers.

Thats true Jimmy but I get frustrated when all I hear is oh he's fat and slow so he's shit.

I thought he led well last night and at the very least presented himself, particuarly in the second quarter every second time forward was directed at him.


And Robbie I did concede those 2 errors, just wonder where else he made mistakes?

[BenDoolan]

Well, being fat and slow doesn't help as a key forward and does partly explain why he's no good at the moment.

That aside, both his critical errors last night were potential 2 goal turnarounds - each time he should've been having a shot on goal, but instead Geelong swept the ball up the field on the back of his errors and kicked a goal. Kills us.

He doesn't lead all that well, nor anywhere near often enough because he ain't anywhere near fit enough.

The posts that are pillaging him, including mine, are probably borne out of the frustration that, as far as i can tell, he's gone nowhere since he debuted - he's still not fit enough, doesn't lead often enough, doesn't get enough of the ball and is prone to errors. When young players don't progress in 3 years, they start copping shit. He can either drop his head and he'll be out the door at year's end, or he can work hard to turn things around and become a decent player like Dyson, Winderlich, Watson etc. have when faced with simiar predicaments in their careers.

I was going to say something, but you've said it for me.

[MH_Bomber]

[bitter_and_twisted rant]

Neagle Neagle Neagle Jay Neagle !!! I am sorry but when he played on after taking that good grab, when we were 4 up and had them on toast, it was a complete lack of judgement. This is in terms of the situation in the game (time to slot another goal and increase the lead), the situation in the play (the set shot was totally kickable) and in his own ability (he's not a rover he's a big fella and basically lacks pace).

A player has to know his limitations and playing on in that situation was utterly ridiculous. We lost all momentum from that point on because not only was he pinged for holding the ball, he injured himself and Geelong scored after a goal drought.

I dont know if the error was borne out of the worry he has with his position in the side when Hurley comes back in but please Jay its your job to go back, take your time and slot the goal not play on like you are James Hird.

Secondly I know Davey did some good things in the 2nd but he needs to make sure the his feet are working in unison with his torso. On a number of occasions he's be running too fast to actually catch the ball delivered by hand or foot.

[/start bitter_and_twisted rant]

[j-mac31]

C'mon Bonce, are you watching the same guy? He is clearly not fit enough to be a good AFL tall forward and has made no improvement in that area over the past few years.

I want him to do well too and think when he lead he often does it well and he hits the contests hard, but isn't fit enough to do it through a full game.

[rockhole]

Fat, unfit, slow......I just don't think he is good enough to play at the top level,

[chummy]

Has not had to work hard enough for the opportunities he has been given was drafted by Sheeds as bottom age when no nobody else rated. Because his name is Neagle. Has never kicked a bag at Bendigo yet last year managed to keep the clubs greatest goal kicker on a flank and this year we boot him to give the kid time to develop ,Neagle needed to earn his position as does any player .I think it is a mistake to throw players who are lacking confidence like Neagle and Gumbleton to the wolves if you have long term plans for them then take a long term view send them to Bendigo leave them their let them dominate make them hungry make them feel they deserve their opportunities not because they're the number two draft pick or the son of a club great let them earn the respect of their team mates . There is no question that clubs and coaches also feel the pressure to prove they have made the right draft choices and correct list management and subsequently pick teams to vindicate their decision making, maybe its time we backed off .

[robbie67]

Has not had to work hard enough for the opportunities he has been given was drafted by Sheeds as bottom age when no nobody else rated. Because his name is Neagle. Has never kicked a bag at Bendigo yet last year managed to keep the clubs greatest goal kicker on a flank and this year we boot him to give the kid time to develop ,Neagle needed to earn his position as does any player .I think it is a mistake to throw players who are lacking confidence like Neagle and Gumbleton to the wolves if you have long term plans for them then take a long term view send them to Bendigo leave them their let them dominate make them hungry make them feel they deserve their opportunities not because they're the number two draft pick or the son of a club great let them earn the respect of their team mates . There is no question that clubs and coaches also feel the pressure to prove they have made the right draft choices and correct list management and subsequently pick teams to vindicate their decision making, maybe its time we backed off .

This.

[danstar84]

I'd say he will play at least until Hurley returns.

I wouldn't mind seeing Daniher given a crack at FF. He has been very unlucky at times in getting a game.

[little_ripper]

I think Jay Neagle is a genuine full forward.

At full forward your mistakes are magnified a million times. Sounds crazy I'd give him every game this year. Just think he will reward the club eventually.

The position however I think is really up for grabs is CHF. we have a few guys I think who could grab it. Hurley, Ryder and hopefully Gumby.

[chummy]

I think Jay Neagle is a genuine full forward.

At full forward your mistakes are magnified a million times. Sounds crazy I'd give him every game this year. Just think he will reward the club eventually.

The position however I think is really up for grabs is CHF. we have a few guys I think who could grab it. Hurley, Ryder and hopefully Gumby.

Based on what all the goals he's kicked or that he can only play at FULLFORWARD

[Windy_Hill]

Knighta's Henneman

[j-mac31]

Has not had to work hard enough for the opportunities he has been given was drafted by Sheeds as bottom age when no nobody else rated. Because his name is Neagle.

If memory serves, there was an interview with Sheeds and Neagle the first year he was on the list and I got the impression that Sheeds drafted him mainly, or at least in part, as a favor to Neagle's mother.

[robrulz5]

Playing on was a big mistake. He is a good kick and should have went back and had a set shot like he had every time before this.

[Crazyman]

For those that want to bag Neagle for one or two bad decisions, I have to say that you are also being very light on Knighta with his run and carry at all costs.

Whilst he should have gone back and taken the set shot, I thought he felt his opponent in the contest and thought Taylor fell over. In addition to that, he would have thought that he had about 5 or 6 metres to run in and make a certainty out of it (which he and everyone else found out) wasn't the case...

Also, for those that want to keep bagging him, I think that he, like every other player, works extremely hard off the paddock. Yes, he has had some puppy fat to get rid of (and I think he has got rid of a fair bit looking at him this year compared to last...)

He is still young, is slowly (maybe too slowly for some) getting better. He breaks packs open, is a good strong grab and I think works hard when not in possession as the game against the kitties showed. He will make mistakes, is still a tad podgy and slow, but ultimately, give this kid a break cause I think the potential is there and it may just take a little longer to be realised that some people want.

After all, when Lloyd started out, I am sure (apart from the puppy fat) he made just as many errors and took quite a while to get going as well...you don't replace players the calibre of Lucas and Lloyd with teenagers/early twenties and guys that haven't played for 2 or 3 years due to injury and expect them to kick 5+ goals a game from the get go

[robrulz5]

After all, when Lloyd started out, I am sure (apart from the puppy fat) he made just as many errors and took quite a while to get going as well...you don't replace players the calibre of Lucas and Lloyd with teenagers/early twenties and guys that haven't played for 2 or 3 years due to injury and expect them to kick 5+ goals a game from the get go

Also late last year some on here kept mentioning how Jay had kicked more goals at the same stage of his career as Lloyd.

[BenDoolan]

After all, when Lloyd started out, I am sure (apart from the puppy fat) he made just as many errors and took quite a while to get going as well...you don't replace players the calibre of Lucas and Lloyd with teenagers/early twenties and guys that haven't played for 2 or 3 years due to injury and expect them to kick 5+ goals a game from the get go

Also late last year some on here kept mentioning how Jay had kicked more goals at the same stage of his career as Lloyd.

Not quite correct. But right at this stage;

Jay Neagle 21 games for 31 goals
Matty Lloyd 21 games for 40 goals

Lloydy had to take a back seat in his first two seasons also - Paul Salmon in 1995 and Scott Cummings in 1996 had the goalsquare while Lloyd roamed half forward. He kicked 7 goals in his 10th AFL match. And in his 3rd season - he kicked 63 goals as our focal point. So Jay better get his bloody skates on.....

[boncer34]

After all, when Lloyd started out, I am sure (apart from the puppy fat) he made just as many errors and took quite a while to get going as well...you don't replace players the calibre of Lucas and Lloyd with teenagers/early twenties and guys that haven't played for 2 or 3 years due to injury and expect them to kick 5+ goals a game from the get go

Also late last year some on here kept mentioning how Jay had kicked more goals at the same stage of his career as Lloyd.

Not quite correct. But right at this stage;

Jay Neagle 21 games for 31 goals
Matty Lloyd 21 games for 40 goals

Lloydy had to take a back seat in his first two seasons also - Paul Salmon in 1995 and Scott Cummings in 1996 had the goalsquare while Lloyd roamed half forward. He kicked 7 goals in his 10th AFL match. And in his 3rd season - he kicked 63 goals as our focal point. So Jay better get his bloody skates on.....

It is a fair point BD that a couple of blokes had the play in the forward 50 in Neagle's first couple of years.