The Politics Thread.

Talk here about anything that isn't covered by the other boards....
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MH_Bomber
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by MH_Bomber » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:24 pm

BERT wrote:
Sismis wrote:f*** paper voting. This is ridiculous.
Should bring in online voting.

You shouldn't have to line up for over an hour to vote.
You can thank those smart arses in the The Greens and the Liberal Party for that. They cooked up the changes to the Senate paper whereby you need to have nominated 6 above the line preferences. The Libs did this to supposedly eradicate the likes of Jackie Lamby and Ricky Muir. We have for our sins - Pauline Hanson instead. That delayed how fast people voted.

The coalition could not have got that through without the help of The Greens. Now look what has happened they have lost a senator and Pauline Hanson's One Nation could have up to 4.
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F111
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by F111 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:51 pm

Re online voting, NSW has used it and maybe WA, but there were security issues where online votes could be accessed and potentially changed.
edit: here it is...
http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2015/03/th ... ne-voting/

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:00 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:
BERT wrote:
Sismis wrote:f*** paper voting. This is ridiculous.
Should bring in online voting.

You shouldn't have to line up for over an hour to vote.
You can thank those smart arses in the The Greens and the Liberal Party for that. They cooked up the changes to the Senate paper whereby you need to have nominated 6 above the line preferences. The Libs did this to supposedly eradicate the likes of Jackie Lamby and Ricky Muir. We have for our sins - Pauline Hanson instead. That delayed how fast people voted.

The coalition could not have got that through without the help of The Greens. Now look what has happened they have lost a senator and Pauline Hanson's One Nation could have up to 4.
Hang on, weren't ALP claiming the Greens were" pulling the ladder up after them"? Which is it? Lucky the ALP got those Lib prefs over the Greens, you know the ones the Greens did a "dirty deal" over.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:03 pm

F111 wrote:Re online voting, NSW has used it and maybe WA, but there were security issues where online votes could be accessed and potentially changed.
edit: here it is...
http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2015/03/th ... ne-voting/
It doesn't have to be online. Electonic ballot boxes would also be an improvement.

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BERT
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by BERT » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:17 pm

They have been posting out the council ballots for years. Should be easy to do.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by MH_Bomber » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:34 pm

The coalition introduced the legislation to change the senate voting procedure and The Greens supported them. So yes Labor blamed the Greens but it was Turnbull's idea. He thought he could get rid of all those pesky independents like Lambie, Muir and Lazaris by 1) making it impossible for the senator whisperer that helped these guys get up to do that in the future and 2) calling a double dissolution election.

Turnbull got it completely wrong. By having a double dissolution the quota to get a senate seat was halved so we now have a more disparate group on the crossbench.

It appears that they will get the majority they need. I saw Turnbull on the news tonight. He doesnt even bother constructing sentences anymore. He just goes around saying the words stability, strong, coalition, majority in no particular order. The bloke has been revealed to be a complete flake. I thought he was much better than this. As for Shorten - he got better the longer the campaign went on.
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BERT
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by BERT » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:36 am

Hanson is to the extreme right what The Greens are to the extreme left. An alternative to the major parties.

She has pretty much replaced the PUP in the senate.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by boncer34 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:02 am

Someone should tell Bill he lost. His victory tour has been extraordinary.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:17 am

boncer34 wrote:Someone should tell Bill he lost. His victory tour has been extraordinary.
He has won big. For the ALP this was a good one to lose.

LNP is going to tear itself apart. They could not deal with the previous senate, what hope have they got now? LNP will be staring down the barrel of a wipeout next election. How long do you think Turnbull will last?

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by boncer34 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:20 am

Sismis wrote:
boncer34 wrote:Someone should tell Bill he lost. His victory tour has been extraordinary.
He has won big. For the ALP this was a good one to lose.

LNP is going to tear itself apart. They could not deal with the previous senate, what hope have they got now? LNP will be staring down the barrel of a wipeout next election. How long do you think Turnbull will last?
Funny how 9 months ago they were staring down the barrel of being wiped out.

Or is that all forgotten?

Turnbull took the same policies to the people that under Abbott was going to see the Liberals being taken to the cleaners. He then played a bold, I say crazy, strategy with the Senate and yet despite all this he's still going to win and you reckon Shorten won big? Really?

I voted for Labor because I prefer their policies but shit Shorten had crappy opposition policies, a Prime Minister who seemed to barely get out of 2nd gear on the campaign trail and a false scare campaign that noone called him out on and still couldn't get over the line.

Personally I'm filthy with him.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by boncer34 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:28 am

Though I guess it proves my long held theory that the average voter vote for the personality in charge of the party and no the actual policies.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:35 am

boncer34 wrote:
Sismis wrote:
boncer34 wrote:Someone should tell Bill he lost. His victory tour has been extraordinary.
He has won big. For the ALP this was a good one to lose.

LNP is going to tear itself apart. They could not deal with the previous senate, what hope have they got now? LNP will be staring down the barrel of a wipeout next election. How long do you think Turnbull will last?
Funny how 9 months ago they were staring down the barrel of being wiped out.

Or is that all forgotten?

Turnbull took the same policies to the people that under Abbott was going to see the Liberals being taken to the cleaners. He then played a bold, I say crazy, strategy with the Senate and yet despite all this he's still going to win and you reckon Shorten won big? Really?

I voted for Labor because I prefer their policies but shit Shorten had crappy opposition policies, a Prime Minister who seemed to barely get out of 2nd gear on the campaign trail and a false scare campaign that noone called him out on and still couldn't get over the line.

Personally I'm filthy with him.
And when Turnbull get's dumped?

The senate voting changes were an improvement, but the double dissolution a "bold move? IMO but they had to do it to cash in on the last of Turnbull's popularity which has plummeted. IMO if they had gone to term they would have lost.

I don't rate Shorten as a leader, but his campaign was miles ahead of Turnbull's. If ALP were only in second gear the LNP was in neutral. Turnbull's head was their whole campaign. Half of their front bench was gagged!

Turnbull has lost a big chunk of his support and the far right is smelling blood.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:37 am

boncer34 wrote:Though I guess it proves my long held theory that the average voter vote for the personality in charge of the party and no the actual policies.
It proves LNP voters did, but by your estimation Shorten performed poorly, how does your theory explain the swing?

NB I actually agree with your theory, I disagree on your assessment of Shorten.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by BenDoolan » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:54 am

boncer34 wrote:
Sismis wrote:
boncer34 wrote:Someone should tell Bill he lost. His victory tour has been extraordinary.
He has won big. For the ALP this was a good one to lose.

LNP is going to tear itself apart. They could not deal with the previous senate, what hope have they got now? LNP will be staring down the barrel of a wipeout next election. How long do you think Turnbull will last?
Funny how 9 months ago they were staring down the barrel of being wiped out.

Or is that all forgotten?

Turnbull took the same policies to the people that under Abbott was going to see the Liberals being taken to the cleaners. He then played a bold, I say crazy, strategy with the Senate and yet despite all this he's still going to win and you reckon Shorten won big? Really?

I voted for Labor because I prefer their policies but shit Shorten had crappy opposition policies, a Prime Minister who seemed to barely get out of 2nd gear on the campaign trail and a false scare campaign that noone called him out on and still couldn't get over the line.

Personally I'm filthy with him.
Gaining 16 seats (approx) is a huge gain. Not sure how you'd see it any other way than a disaster for the coalition and a huge boost for the ALP.

What did you think of Turnbull's speech on election night? Did he sound like a winner?
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by boncer34 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:01 pm

BenDoolan wrote:
boncer34 wrote:
Sismis wrote:
boncer34 wrote:Someone should tell Bill he lost. His victory tour has been extraordinary.
He has won big. For the ALP this was a good one to lose.

LNP is going to tear itself apart. They could not deal with the previous senate, what hope have they got now? LNP will be staring down the barrel of a wipeout next election. How long do you think Turnbull will last?
Funny how 9 months ago they were staring down the barrel of being wiped out.

Or is that all forgotten?

Turnbull took the same policies to the people that under Abbott was going to see the Liberals being taken to the cleaners. He then played a bold, I say crazy, strategy with the Senate and yet despite all this he's still going to win and you reckon Shorten won big? Really?

I voted for Labor because I prefer their policies but shit Shorten had crappy opposition policies, a Prime Minister who seemed to barely get out of 2nd gear on the campaign trail and a false scare campaign that noone called him out on and still couldn't get over the line.

Personally I'm filthy with him.
Gaining 16 seats (approx) is a huge gain. Not sure how you'd see it any other way than a disaster for the coalition and a huge boost for the ALP.

What did you think of Turnbull's speech on election night? Did he sound like a winner?
Because 9 months ago they were on track to gain a lot more then 16 seats Benny. They were going to form government.

9 months later and we've returned a Liberal/Nationals Coalition that has only changed the wrapping on the turd. That's it.

I get that I'm in the minority here but how the hell does Shorten get pats on the back from taking what was going to be a easy Labor win 9 months ago and turning it into a narrow loss?

EDIT: Haven't see the speech either mate.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by boncer34 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:07 pm

Sismis wrote:
boncer34 wrote:Though I guess it proves my long held theory that the average voter vote for the personality in charge of the party and no the actual policies.
It proves LNP voters did, but by your estimation Shorten performed poorly, how does your theory explain the swing?

NB I actually agree with your theory, I disagree on your assessment of Shorten.
Because my argument is that 9 months ago before Turnbull the swing was going to be bigger Sis. Labor were going to win. They haven't.

That's not great by Shorten.

And Turnbull was pathetic, which amazes me even more that people voted for him.

Admittedly 9 months ago when he first came in I thought Turnbull would turn it around, but he changed nothing so based on that I would've thought Labor would have easily maintained the rage being felt at the Coalition. But over a course of what? 6? 7? months they didn't and the Coalition have ended up winning.

Fully accept I'm in the minority here Sis. I don't think either leader has covered themselves in glory, but Shorten had better sit down and work out why they lost. Despite all his campaign "brilliance" that is being touted they still lost.

Why? That's what he needs to sort out.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by BenDoolan » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:29 pm

boncer34 wrote:
BenDoolan wrote:
boncer34 wrote:
Sismis wrote:
boncer34 wrote:Someone should tell Bill he lost. His victory tour has been extraordinary.
He has won big. For the ALP this was a good one to lose.

LNP is going to tear itself apart. They could not deal with the previous senate, what hope have they got now? LNP will be staring down the barrel of a wipeout next election. How long do you think Turnbull will last?
Funny how 9 months ago they were staring down the barrel of being wiped out.

Or is that all forgotten?

Turnbull took the same policies to the people that under Abbott was going to see the Liberals being taken to the cleaners. He then played a bold, I say crazy, strategy with the Senate and yet despite all this he's still going to win and you reckon Shorten won big? Really?

I voted for Labor because I prefer their policies but shit Shorten had crappy opposition policies, a Prime Minister who seemed to barely get out of 2nd gear on the campaign trail and a false scare campaign that noone called him out on and still couldn't get over the line.

Personally I'm filthy with him.
Gaining 16 seats (approx) is a huge gain. Not sure how you'd see it any other way than a disaster for the coalition and a huge boost for the ALP.

What did you think of Turnbull's speech on election night? Did he sound like a winner?
Because 9 months ago they were on track to gain a lot more then 16 seats Benny. They were going to form government.

9 months later and we've returned a Liberal/Nationals Coalition that has only changed the wrapping on the turd. That's it.

I get that I'm in the minority here but how the hell does Shorten get pats on the back from taking what was going to be a easy Labor win 9 months ago and turning it into a narrow loss?

EDIT: Haven't see the speech either mate.
I take no notice of what "they" say at any stage during a term of office. It's just background noise to drive opinion polls every week / month. It's a media tactic to shift a government's position on a policy or a leader. And it works. Not sure how anyone can predict a massive shift in seats unless they get direct opinion polls from these seats.

FWIW, I haven't heard anyone say that ALP were going to win this election. But maybe that's because I hardly pay attention to what is printed or aired these days.

Turnbull sounded like a sore loser Saturday night / Sunday morning. Very bitter speech. Lousy in fact.

This is the worst possible result for them. Even worse than actually losing. The electorate will pull the lever on the gallows on them in 2019, if not earlier.
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BERT
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by BERT » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:40 pm

The ALP are the winners of the election, like the Libs were in the 2010 poll. Shorten out campaigned Turnbull. The Libs had to big a seat majority to lose the poll and I believe the CFA issue played out in Victoria.

Turnbulls speech on Saturday night was a shocker. Didn't even mention the MP's that lost there seats.

Will he get the full term. Like the ALP in Gillards term if the polls continue to go south there will be a change of leadership. Not sure if it will be Abbott. I'd think they would try and draft in Julie Bishop.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:52 pm

boncer34 wrote:
Sismis wrote:
boncer34 wrote:Though I guess it proves my long held theory that the average voter vote for the personality in charge of the party and no the actual policies.
It proves LNP voters did, but by your estimation Shorten performed poorly, how does your theory explain the swing?

NB I actually agree with your theory, I disagree on your assessment of Shorten.
Because my argument is that 9 months ago before Turnbull the swing was going to be bigger Sis. Labor were going to win. They haven't.

That's not great by Shorten.

And Turnbull was pathetic, which amazes me even more that people voted for him.

Admittedly 9 months ago when he first came in I thought Turnbull would turn it around, but he changed nothing so based on that I would've thought Labor would have easily maintained the rage being felt at the Coalition. But over a course of what? 6? 7? months they didn't and the Coalition have ended up winning.

Fully accept I'm in the minority here Sis. I don't think either leader has covered themselves in glory, but Shorten had better sit down and work out why they lost. Despite all his campaign "brilliance" that is being touted they still lost.

Why? That's what he needs to sort out.
If you only want to measure it form the the point in time when Turnbull took over then sure. But after Turnbull took over the LNP jumped out to massive lead, they had completely reversed the TPP from when Abbott dragged them down to the bottom. From that point in time (around 6 months ago) the ALP have smashed the LNP.

You are saying they "lost". They "lost" 1 seat. That is one seat in all of Australia that went ALP to LNP. The swing to Labor was massive. Why would Shorten need to "work out why they lost" when whatever they have done since February has clearly worked?

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:54 pm

BERT wrote:The ALP are the winners of the election, like the Libs were in the 2010 poll. Shorten out campaigned Turnbull. The Libs had to big a seat majority to lose the poll and I believe the CFA issue played out in Victoria.

Turnbulls speech on Saturday night was a shocker. Didn't even mention the MP's that lost there seats.

Will he get the full term. Like the ALP in Gillards term if the polls continue to go south there will be a change of leadership. Not sure if it will be Abbott. I'd think they would try and draft in Julie Bishop.
Would Bishop appease the right though? I think they will want Morrison.

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