The Politics Thread.

Talk here about anything that isn't covered by the other boards....
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F111
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by F111 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:08 pm

The UK & the USA will likely get female leaders. It'd be no surprise if we're not much different. Flavour of the month...

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BERT
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by BERT » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:14 pm

Sismis wrote:
BERT wrote:The ALP are the winners of the election, like the Libs were in the 2010 poll. Shorten out campaigned Turnbull. The Libs had to big a seat majority to lose the poll and I believe the CFA issue played out in Victoria.

Turnbulls speech on Saturday night was a shocker. Didn't even mention the MP's that lost there seats.

Will he get the full term. Like the ALP in Gillards term if the polls continue to go south there will be a change of leadership. Not sure if it will be Abbott. I'd think they would try and draft in Julie Bishop.
Would Bishop appease the right though? I think they will want Morrison.
I don't think Morrison would win them an election.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by MH_Bomber » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:41 am

I agree with BERT. this isn't an election anyone wanted to particularly to win with the numbers so tight and the menagerie of interests in the Senate.

I am a bit of a political junky so I followed the campaign of both parties very closely. Labor could point to a half a dozen points of difference in their policy agenda that they had to distinguish them from the Liberal Party. The constant repetition of the words jobs and growth just meant nothing if the coalition could not explain how the the tax cuts would actually translate into these things. There were just too many assumptions that people have to jump to believe that the jobs and growth would eventuate.

As for Medicare, the coalition has form historically on trying to minimise its universality so the negative campaign always had a ring of truth in people eyes.

The next 3 years will be interesting politically but pity about the fact that major reforms are needed to make our nation function more fairly and sustainably.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by mdso » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:16 am

BERT wrote:
Sismis wrote:
BERT wrote:The ALP are the winners of the election, like the Libs were in the 2010 poll. Shorten out campaigned Turnbull. The Libs had to big a seat majority to lose the poll and I believe the CFA issue played out in Victoria.

Turnbulls speech on Saturday night was a shocker. Didn't even mention the MP's that lost there seats.

Will he get the full term. Like the ALP in Gillards term if the polls continue to go south there will be a change of leadership. Not sure if it will be Abbott. I'd think they would try and draft in Julie Bishop.
Would Bishop appease the right though? I think they will want Morrison.
I don't think Morrison would win them an election.
Julie Bishop unbelievable staying power how many leaders has she seen fall by the wayside. I cannot see her being Prime Minister ever, I don't believe she has enough of the right sort of umph. And; I do not believe Australia is ready for another female PM yet.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:48 am

MH_Bomber wrote:I agree with BERT. this isn't an election anyone wanted to particularly to win with the numbers so tight and the menagerie of interests in the Senate.

I am a bit of a political junky so I followed the campaign of both parties very closely. Labor could point to a half a dozen points of difference in their policy agenda that they had to distinguish them from the Liberal Party. The constant repetition of the words jobs and growth just meant nothing if the coalition could not explain how the the tax cuts would actually translate into these things. There were just too many assumptions that people have to jump to believe that the jobs and growth would eventuate.

As for Medicare, the coalition has form historically on trying to minimise its universality so the negative campaign always had a ring of truth in people eyes.

The next 3 years will be interesting politically but pity about the fact that major reforms are needed to make our nation function more fairly and sustainably.
On Mediscare, I think the LNP "doth protest too much". They planned to cut jobs and offshore and have already farmed out records to Telstra. It may not strictly be "privatization" but it's close enough.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by grassy1 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:22 pm

How Big a factor was Andrews with the Victorian Vote Bert.Did he cost the ALP more than just a few seats?

How Big a DILL is he? #-o

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BERT
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by BERT » Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:37 pm

grassy1 wrote:How Big a factor was Andrews with the Victorian Vote Bert.Did he cost the ALP more than just a few seats?

How Big a DILL is he? #-o
The ALP didn't pick up a seat here. They lost one. There were probably 4 or so seats in play that could have easily fell to the ALP. If they did Bill would be PM now.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by MH_Bomber » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:42 pm

The party line is that Labor was coming from a high base from 2013 so the swing wasn't going to be as big here as elsewhere.

I actually dont blame Andrews for the CFA dispute with the Firefighters Union. I think he could see Garrett was dragging it on and getting off side with the Union. The dispute had been going on for ages before that - 1200 days in fact. I think Andrews tried to bring the thing to a head. In any case the whole thing blew up with Fair Work agreeing to EBA. This even surprised the union. I still don't quite understand why the volunteers are so upset. There seems to be a great deal of misinformation and exaggeration of what the effects of the EBA on the CFA will be.

If anyone is to blame for Labor losing the election over the seats it didnt gain in Victoria it is Jane Garrett. SkyRail may have bit a little in Chisholm but had no effect in Hotham. Kelly O'Dwyer marched with the NIMBY's of Murrumbeena over Skyrail. That may have helped her get over Jason Ball (Green) in Higgins.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by grassy1 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:42 am

Timing was lousy if you ask me.

What was another 100 days? :-"

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by BenDoolan » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:57 am

MH_Bomber wrote:The party line is that Labor was coming from a high base from 2013 so the swing wasn't going to be as big here as elsewhere.

I actually dont blame Andrews for the CFA dispute with the Firefighters Union. I think he could see Garrett was dragging it on and getting off side with the Union. The dispute had been going on for ages before that - 1200 days in fact. I think Andrews tried to bring the thing to a head. In any case the whole thing blew up with Fair Work agreeing to EBA. This even surprised the union. I still don't quite understand why the volunteers are so upset. There seems to be a great deal of misinformation and exaggeration of what the effects of the EBA on the CFA will be.

If anyone is to blame for Labor losing the election over the seats it didnt gain in Victoria it is Jane Garrett. SkyRail may have bit a little in Chisholm but had no effect in Hotham. Kelly O'Dwyer marched with the NIMBY's of Murrumbeena over Skyrail. That may have helped her get over Jason Ball (Green) in Higgins.
Garrett should be applauded for her stance against a dopey leader taken hostage by a thug union. Peter Marshall is an arsehole. Ask anyone who has worked in the CFA over the decades.

I only hope state labor get anihilated in the next election and are sent to oblivion.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by boncer34 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:56 pm

Sismis wrote:
boncer34 wrote:
Sismis wrote:
boncer34 wrote:Though I guess it proves my long held theory that the average voter vote for the personality in charge of the party and no the actual policies.
It proves LNP voters did, but by your estimation Shorten performed poorly, how does your theory explain the swing?

NB I actually agree with your theory, I disagree on your assessment of Shorten.
Because my argument is that 9 months ago before Turnbull the swing was going to be bigger Sis. Labor were going to win. They haven't.

That's not great by Shorten.

And Turnbull was pathetic, which amazes me even more that people voted for him.

Admittedly 9 months ago when he first came in I thought Turnbull would turn it around, but he changed nothing so based on that I would've thought Labor would have easily maintained the rage being felt at the Coalition. But over a course of what? 6? 7? months they didn't and the Coalition have ended up winning.

Fully accept I'm in the minority here Sis. I don't think either leader has covered themselves in glory, but Shorten had better sit down and work out why they lost. Despite all his campaign "brilliance" that is being touted they still lost.

Why? That's what he needs to sort out.
If you only want to measure it form the the point in time when Turnbull took over then sure. But after Turnbull took over the LNP jumped out to massive lead, they had completely reversed the TPP from when Abbott dragged them down to the bottom. From that point in time (around 6 months ago) the ALP have smashed the LNP.

You are saying they "lost". They "lost" 1 seat. That is one seat in all of Australia that went ALP to LNP. The swing to Labor was massive. Why would Shorten need to "work out why they lost" when whatever they have done since February has clearly worked?
So you only want to measure it from the time Turnbull had a big lead? Fair enough you measure it from whenever you want Sis. But don't pick criticize me for picking a point in time when you're saying things like "Since February" coz guess what you're doing there Sis? You're picking a point in time. :lol:

And I keep saying they lost (no we don't need the "") because guess what? They lost. They didn't win the election. They aren't forming government. They lost. They didn't get enough votes. Why? Why didn't enough people vote for them?
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Sismis
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:10 pm

boncer34 wrote:
Sismis wrote: If you only want to measure it form the the point in time when Turnbull took over then sure.
So you only want to measure it from the time Turnbull had a big lead? Fair enough you measure it from whenever you want Sis. But don't pick criticize me for picking a point in time when you're saying things like "Since February" coz guess what you're doing there Sis? You're picking a point in time. :lol:

And I keep saying they lost (no we don't need the "") because guess what? They lost. They didn't win the election. They aren't forming government. They lost. They didn't get enough votes. Why? Why didn't enough people vote for them?
Where did I criticize you for picking a point in time? I acknowledged your position as valid and presented a different view and stated the parameters involved.

Viewing it from a binary win/loss perspective they lost. What I am suggesting is that when you consider the context, it was a pyrrhic victory, a victory that in the long term is going to damage them more than a loss would have. As for the ALP they lost the election but gained much more than was expected.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by BenDoolan » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:44 pm

I hope Jane Garrett is successful in bringing down that utter c*** Peter Marshall. And hope she takes the premier with her. She has my total moral support and admiration.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by mdso » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:36 am

F111 wrote:The UK & the USA will likely get female leaders. It'd be no surprise if we're not much different. Flavour of the month...
Its not chocolate. Problem is who is the better? Hilary is a war monger and god only knows what Trump will do if he gets in.
Full employment I guess, if he goes ahead and build the wall to keep out the Mexicans. (Tongue in cheek.)
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:51 pm

mdso wrote:
F111 wrote:The UK & the USA will likely get female leaders. It'd be no surprise if we're not much different. Flavour of the month...
Its not chocolate. Problem is who is the better? Hilary is a war monger and god only knows what Trump will do if he gets in.
Full employment I guess, if he goes ahead and build the wall to keep out the Mexicans. (Tongue in cheek.)
Do you think Obama is a warmonger?

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:51 pm

mdso wrote:
F111 wrote:The UK & the USA will likely get female leaders. It'd be no surprise if we're not much different. Flavour of the month...
Its not chocolate. Problem is who is the better? Hilary is a war monger and god only knows what Trump will do if he gets in.
Full employment I guess, if he goes ahead and build the wall to keep out the Mexicans. (Tongue in cheek.)
Do you think Obama is a warmonger?

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by Sismis » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:07 pm

Dastyari. ALP/Shorten you are absolutely soft as shit. Shorten Turnbull a perfect storm of leadership uselessness. Both absolutely gutless.

I do not for one minute condone what Dastyari did. The attitude that these f****** have that their positions entitle them to all of these perks is a disgrace. But it is a far reaching problem affecting both sides and Dastyari's little f*** up is a drop in the ocean. Less than 1/10 the value of the Rolex's Tony and co accepted because they through they were fakes...

And now the blow torch is on foreign donations watch both parties squirm and do nothing.

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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by mdso » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:57 pm

Sismis wrote:
mdso wrote:
F111 wrote:The UK & the USA will likely get female leaders. It'd be no surprise if we're not much different. Flavour of the month...
Its not chocolate. Problem is who is the better? Hilary is a war monger and god only knows what Trump will do if he gets in.
Full employment I guess, if he goes ahead and build the wall to keep out the Mexicans. (Tongue in cheek.)
Do you think Obama is a warmonger?
Yes I do. But he says it so nicely, doesn't he? The US economy cannot function without a war going on somewhere.
Last edited by mdso on Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by j-mac31 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:58 pm

Sismis wrote:Dastyari. ALP/Shorten you are absolutely soft as shit. Shorten Turnbull a perfect storm of leadership uselessness. Both absolutely gutless.

I do not for one minute condone what Dastyari did. The attitude that these f****** have that their positions entitle them to all of these perks is a disgrace. But it is a far reaching problem affecting both sides and Dastyari's little f*** up is a drop in the ocean. Less than 1/10 the value of the Rolex's Tony and co accepted because they through they were fakes...

And now the blow torch is on foreign donations watch both parties squirm and do nothing.
Agree with all of this.
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Re: The Politics Thread.

Post by mdso » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:01 pm

j-mac31 wrote:
Sismis wrote:Dastyari. ALP/Shorten you are absolutely soft as shit. Shorten Turnbull a perfect storm of leadership uselessness. Both absolutely gutless.

I do not for one minute condone what Dastyari did. The attitude that these f****** have that their positions entitle them to all of these perks is a disgrace. But it is a far reaching problem affecting both sides and Dastyari's little f*** up is a drop in the ocean. Less than 1/10 the value of the Rolex's Tony and co accepted because they through they were fakes...

And now the blow torch is on foreign donations watch both parties squirm and do nothing.
Agree with all of this.
There's no argument from me that the sense of entitlement in this country, begins at the top and the waste in Government is just too ridiculous for words.
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