Sheikh Feiz Mohammed

[temporary stevo]

so i heard that he has incited violence, called Muslims to raise their children for jihad (the media really should stop using this term when they clearly don't understand it), and called Jews 'pigs'. so i watch the news, and snippets from the video are played.

his incitement to violence was something like: "the most honourable death is to die for Islam." that sounds pretty stupid to me, but it certainly doesn't mean "the most honourable death is to die for Islam in the process of killing infidels".

regarding the rearing of children, he said something like: "children should be soldiers of Islam." a soldier is not a terrorist.

and as for calling Jews 'pigs', well, that little snippet didn't appear, so i wonder if that's yet another misinterpretation.

of course, this is the guy who said that women 'deserve' to be raped, so he's no stranger to espousing bizarre and immoral views. but, why is everybody falling over themselves to condemn him? the government, the opposition, the media... sure, it's not a massive stretch to read his comments as supporting Islamofascist inspired terrorism. but it's also not a massive stretch to read these comments as something much more benign. it seems that so many people have been so quick to condemn simply because he's a Muslim, and everybody knows that they're all evil, they all hate Westerners and freedom and women and so on. one can't help but think that if similarly worded comments were made by, say, the Exclusive Brethren, the government and Krudd would be urging a much more sceptical and moderate response - "Christians are all such lovely people; these comments are only metaphorical".

[Rossoneri]

For one, its a different guy who said that women deserved to be raped by the clothes they wear.

Secondly, in this fragile world of ours, when was the last time a priest said that we should kill those who do not believe in the same religion as us? If me or you say it, who gives a f***? What significance do we have over the next person.

But when a leader, be it political, religious or whatever says it, it can have some serious ramifications.

Lets move away from the muslim thing so a to be more general. If a priest says it, I will say "piss off, im watching the footy". Yet some other guy who listens to every word that comes out of a religous mans mouth will take it as an act to make their god happy. When people with power over others say this shit, it can incite unneccasary violence.

Now I have a few muslim mates and we were joking about what that other idiot said and what this bozo has said. They reckon that this bloke is a cockhead, but they also said that there are people who will listen to him and want to follow what he is saying because they believe allah (or Mohammed) says this should happen.

Hope that makes sense. Basically what im saying is that when someone with power says it, they should be condemned for inciting violence, be it a sheik, rabbiah, priest etc.

[Madden]

Rosso, Stevo's point was that perhaps this guy wasnt saying what the media thought he was saying. Perhaps he wasnt telling people to go out and "kill those who don't believe in the same religion as us" (your words).

If he was saying that, then its no doubt bad. But perhaps he wasn't. It's all a matter of interpretation, that's the point.

Im not familar with the comments at hand so I will save my judgement one way or the other until i see / hear them for myself.

[Filthy]

I am so over the media. I don't speak Arabic so who knows if he said what is alleged. If he said it, stuff him. If not.....

I just don't trust the media to be fair and impartial and I smell a Tampa coming on for the election and its called, Muslim.

Also, if the views of this guy are so bad, if the reporting is accurate, then how hateful is this.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 14473.html

PM's message to controversial sect

Misha Schubert, Political Correspondent Canberra

January 19, 2007

John Howard has sent a video greeting to the controversial fundamentalist Christian group Catch the Fire Ministries, in which he reflects on Australia's Christian heritage and values.

Catch the Fire Ministries advocates the destruction of mosques, casinos and bottle shops. Its leader, Danny Nalliah, faces a fresh legal hearing on a charges of racial vilification against Muslims.

The Prime Minister's recorded message was filmed for a prayer meeting to be held in Melbourne on Australia Day, which Pastor Nalliah predicts will attract up to 5000 Christians.

The group refused to disclose the detailed contents of Mr Howard's message yesterday, but said it was "personally directed" to Catch The Fire Ministries.

Pastor Nalliah and his fellow evangelical preacher Daniel Scot claimed vindication late last year when an appeals court set aside orders forcing them to apologise to Muslims for racial vilification.

But the matter was ordered back to the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal, which in 2005 ordered the church to correct and apologise for comments about Muslims.

Despite the controversy engulfing Pastor Nalliah, former Victorian Liberal leader Robert Doyle met and prayed with him early last year.

Federal Treasurer Peter Costello provided a letter of support for the preacher during his legal wrangle over racial vilification and gave a speech to the church a few years ago. Deputy Prime Minister Mark Vaile, former deputy prime minister John Anderson and former governor-general Peter Hollingworth have also made speeches to them.

Pastor Nalliah said the Australia Day event would pray for the drought to break and for the nation to be safe from terrorism.

As a Family First Victorian Senate candidate in the 2004 federal election, a pamphlet written by Pastor Nalliah was condemned by Nationals Senate candidate Barnaby Joyce as evidence the church was part of "the lunatic right".

"Spot Satan's strongholds in the areas you are living (brothels, gambling places, bottle shops, mosques, temples — Freemasons/Buddhist/Hindu etc, witchcraft," the leaflet said.

"If you are ready to pray against it, do so. If not, bring it to your church and ask your intercessors, through the pastor, to pull these strongholds down."


Whats the difference?

[BERT]

The better not touch the bottleshops.

[Filthy]

The better not touch the bottleshops.

Or go to Horne St Bert

[temporary stevo]

For one, its a different guy who said that women deserved to be raped by the clothes they wear.

you're probably thinking of al-Hilaly, who made such comments. but Feiz Mohammed also did.

Secondly, in this fragile world of ours, when was the last time a priest said that we should kill those who do not believe in the same religion as us? If me or you say it, who gives a f***? What significance do we have over the next person.

But when a leader, be it political, religious or whatever says it, it can have some serious ramifications.

as Staggy pointed out, that's not quite what i was getting at, but i think it's nonetheless a difficult question you raise. i certainly agree that people in positions of influence have a greater responsibility to be careful in what they say. but i'm not convinced that there should be legal sanctions just for making such comments - other comments/events notwithstanding. i'm inclined to place a large burden of proof on anyone wanting to restrict freedom of speech/expression.

[temporary stevo]

I am so over the media. I don't speak Arabic so who knows if he said what is alleged. If he said it, stuff him. If not.....

I just don't trust the media to be fair and impartial and I smell a Tampa coming on for the election and its called, Muslim.

well, Howard has to ramp up the fear on terrorism/Muslims/whatever, because apparently the one thing Australians are more anxious about than anything else is global warming: http://theorstrahyun.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ls_17.html

maybe Howard will try to sneak his way into saying that "he's the greatest friend of the environment that Australia has ever had" but maybe he realises that the public won't buy it, so he'll need to cook up some other bogeyman.

[swoodley]

A lot of what is being alluded to in the press comes from a DVD that is available for sale and from what I've read, he's another sick f*** looking for an audience.

This is an article from news.com.au:

SYDNEY'S most influential radical Muslim cleric has been caught on film calling Jews pigs and urging children to die for Allah.

Sheikh Feiz Mohammed, head of the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool, delivers the hateful rants on a collection of DVDs called the Death Series, sold in Australia and overseas, News Limited newspapers report.

An Australian citizen born in Sydney, he has spent the past year living in Lebanon.

Sheikh Feiz was exposed this week in the British documentary, Undercover Mosque.

“Today many parents, they prevent their children from attending lessons,” he says in the video.

“Why? They fear that they might create a place in their hearts, the love, just a bit of the love, of sacrificing their lives for Allah.”

“We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam.

“Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior).

“Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom.”

British investigators found the DVDs being sold by children in the carpark of the Green Lane Mosque in Birmingham and other other Islamic bookshops.

The entire set is available on the internet for $150.

His rants on video include denouncing “kaffirs” or non-Muslims.

“(Kaffir) is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt,” Sheikh Feiz says.

In an excerpt from a video lecture series called Signs of the Hour, he ridicules Jews as pigs.

Sheikh Feiz leads about 4000 followers through his Global Islamic Youth Centre and just two weeks ago said he felt like an “alien” in his own country.

He left for Lebanon just before the arrest of 23 men on terrorism related charges in Sydney and Melbourne in November 2005.

[Rossoneri]

For one, its a different guy who said that women deserved to be raped by the clothes they wear.

you're probably thinking of al-Hilaly, who made such comments. but Feiz Mohammed also did.

Fair enough

Secondly, in this fragile world of ours, when was the last time a priest said that we should kill those who do not believe in the same religion as us? If me or you say it, who gives a f***? What significance do we have over the next person.

But when a leader, be it political, religious or whatever says it, it can have some serious ramifications.

as Staggy pointed out, that's not quite what i was getting at, but i think it's nonetheless a difficult question you raise. i certainly agree that people in positions of influence have a greater responsibility to be careful in what they say. but i'm not convinced that there should be legal sanctions just for making such comments - other comments/events notwithstanding. i'm inclined to place a large burden of proof on anyone wanting to restrict freedom of speech/expression.

I agree, I think it should work all ways.

If you want my honest opinion. I reckon we should ban religion all together. My mother is a strict catholic, goes to church every sunday, but I say that religion should be banned. Just about every war throughout history (exaggeration I know) has been based on religion. If religion is supposed to be so peacful, why have we had so many wars about it?

Protestants vs Catholics
Muslims vs Kurds

the list is huge.

[serkan]

For one, its a different guy who said that women deserved to be raped by the clothes they wear.

you're probably thinking of al-Hilaly, who made such comments. but Feiz Mohammed also did.

Fair enough

Secondly, in this fragile world of ours, when was the last time a priest said that we should kill those who do not believe in the same religion as us? If me or you say it, who gives a f***? What significance do we have over the next person.

But when a leader, be it political, religious or whatever says it, it can have some serious ramifications.

as Staggy pointed out, that's not quite what i was getting at, but i think it's nonetheless a difficult question you raise. i certainly agree that people in positions of influence have a greater responsibility to be careful in what they say. but i'm not convinced that there should be legal sanctions just for making such comments - other comments/events notwithstanding. i'm inclined to place a large burden of proof on anyone wanting to restrict freedom of speech/expression.

I agree, I think it should work all ways.

If you want my honest opinion. I reckon we should ban religion all together. My mother is a strict catholic, goes to church every sunday, but I say that religion should be banned. Just about every war throughout history (exaggeration I know) has been based on religion. If religion is supposed to be so peacful, why have we had so many wars about it?

Protestants vs Catholics
Muslims vs Kurds

the list is huge.

I second that, who knows if allah or god or whatever really exists

[Makaveli]

“Today many parents, they prevent their children from attending lessons,” he says in the video.

“Why? They fear that they might create a place in their hearts, the love, just a bit of the love, of sacrificing their lives for Allah.”

“We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam.

“Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior).

“Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom.”.[/i]

That's the bit I saw last night too, you seemed to leave these bits out stevo, from hearing it, the words seemed very much like insighting martyrdom and this is someone that is a muslim australian leader, there's no holy war here, so putting 2 and 2 together, martydom in this context to the average Australian muslim kid on the street implies terrorism. If Australia’s muslim leaders are saying these things, then it’s a wonder what the average sheikh at the small suburban mosque is saying. They also showed the bit where he said "women that dress inappropriately are asking to be raped". Or was that again, a misinterpretation of a muslim leader. All it needs now is for Kayser "im outraged" Trad to come out and say he was misquoted.
Also, with regards to the Brethren, I seem to remember the age running articles on them (some front page), every day over a period of a month. If that isn't targeting a minority group then I don’t know what is.

[Madden]

Also, with regards to the Brethren, I seem to remember the age running articles on them (some front page), every day over a period of a month. If that isn't targeting a minority group then I don’t know what is.

That is actually a fair point Maka.

However your other points are skeptical. The comments can be interpreted one way or the other (there is a definite case to be made that the comments are inciting violence, no doubt about it). But it is true that the comments can be interpreted multiple ways, yet media always interprets comments like these in the worst possible light. I think that was Stevo's point.

Filth is dead set correct in his prediction (made a fair while ago if i remember) that Muslims will be the Tampa of this election. That prediction is looking like it will be right on the money.

[Sismis]

“Today many parents, they prevent their children from attending lessons,” he says in the video.

“Why? They fear that they might create a place in their hearts, the love, just a bit of the love, of sacrificing their lives for Allah.”

“We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam.

“Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior).

“Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom.”.[/i]

That's the bit I saw last night too, you seemed to leave these bits out stevo, from hearing it, the words seemed very much like insighting martyrdom and this is someone that is a muslim australian leader, there's no holy war here, so putting 2 and 2 together, martydom in this context to the average Australian muslim kid on the street implies terrorism. If Australia’s muslim leaders are saying these things, then it’s a wonder what the average sheikh at the small suburban mosque is saying. They also showed the bit where he said "women that dress inappropriately are asking to be raped". Or was that again, a misinterpretation of a muslim leader. All it needs now is for Kayser "im outraged" Trad to come out and say he was misquoted.
Also, with regards to the Brethren, I seem to remember the age running articles on them (some front page), every day over a period of a month. If that isn't targeting a minority group then I don’t know what is.

It is no different to a lot of the things many mainstream Christian churches say. "onward Christain soldiers". "A man can have no greater love......" The whole christian faith can be to some degree founded around martyredom.

As for banning religion, I'm assuming that was tongue in cheek. Religion can be one of the most powerful positive and unifying forces. As with everything, it is us who pervert it to own needs. Banning it would do nothing, there will always be something else those hungry for power will use.

[Makaveli]

I reckon we should ban religion all together. Just about every war throughout history (exaggeration I know) has been based on religion.

Lol hahaha, well there is a reason nobody asks your opinion, because that's easily the dumbest comment of the year.... Communism has really proven how successful banning religion is....

[Rossoneri]

It was a tongue in cheek remark dickhead. Im actually surprised you dont agree with this guy, seeing as he is all for rape.

But then again, him being an ethnic wouldnt follow your upbringing.