Mercy Campaign

Talk here about anything that isn't covered by the other boards....
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BenDoolan
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:27 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:Maybe all the people concerned about it are pretty much like me. They just dont get how killing these 2 blokes achieves anything other they saving face for Widodo. They have served 10 and I think would be happy to serve more probably the rest of their lives but to just snuff out human life like - its just doesnt seem right.

They should not have been moved to this horrible island before all legal avenues were played out.
But why is spending the rest of their lives in one of their prisons any better?

I'll throw a few cliches like they have re: their executions;

- locking them up in a cage for the rest of their lives "doesn't solve anything".
- incarceration "doesn't work".
- incarceration "is not a deterrent".
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

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tonysoprano
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by tonysoprano » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:34 pm

Agree with some of that. My question then is if we don't know the answer ie nothing works, what sort of individual, community, government, country, world do we want to be? Especially in the face of not knowing, uncertainty, and lacking answers?

I'd prefer to be part of one that tries to create, develop, grow, nurture etc rather than one that destroys anything.

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BenDoolan
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:47 pm

tonysoprano wrote:Agree with some of that. My question then is if we don't know the answer ie nothing works, what sort of individual, community, government, country, world do we want to be? Especially in the face of not knowing, uncertainty, and lacking answers?

I'd prefer to be part of one that tries to create, develop, grow, nurture etc rather than one that destroys anything.
Good question, and not easy to answer.

I like the idea of creating, developing and nurturing. But I also like to destroy anything that threatens that. Those who choose a path of wilful destruction of life, ought to pay with theirs IMO.
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tonysoprano
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by tonysoprano » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:55 pm

And fair enough too. I wonder what might happen if we only acted in a manner consistent with what we want and hope for from others, and despite the terrible and justifiable emotions we might feel in the face of watching others "destroy" that we refrain from adding to that destruction?

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BenDoolan
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:03 pm

tonysoprano wrote:And fair enough too. I wonder what might happen if we only acted in a manner consistent with what we want and hope for from others, and despite the terrible and justifiable emotions we might feel in the face of watching others "destroy" that we refrain from adding to that destruction?
Nah, I have absolutely zero empathy or sympathy for vile, putrid scum. Too much time is spent thinking about these "poor souls" and not enough time spent thinking about victims and their families. They virtually get zero mention in any of this. That disgusts me.
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by mdso » Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:30 pm

j-mac31 wrote:
mdso wrote:It is only when it affects us deeply, cuts us to the core, do we begin a process of trying to do something to implement change.
But why do only Australian's on death row cut us to the core? And why now, after almost 10 years?
Exactly!

Looking at this situation differently. Imagine if one of these men was your brother or someone you know, would you look at this differently? I'm certain most people would answer yes. I get your point, there are people being executed in other places we do not make a fuss about them where ever they are. The facts are, that Australia has a relationship with Indonesia like Essendon have with the AFL. Seriously. Whilst we trade there are some very ugly unaddressed issues of the past which remain unresolved. For instance, the five journo's who were hunted down and executed when the Indonesians waged war on Bilbo - East Timor. Both the Australian and Indonesian Governments worked together to clamp a brake on what really happened, lied and the truth was hidden for decades. No one yet, has been held responsible for the crime.

The death penalty does not stop drug trafficking. It doesn't stop people using, selling or making drugs of all kinds. It does not stop people from taking and asking for bribes. However, it does support a black underground economy which supports Government Departments, The Police Force, The Justice System, The Prison System, Rehab Centres and the Court System. Having worked within some of those system/s, I have seen from the inside out, how hard it is to rehabilitate people in jail. The facts are that anyone who is rehabilitated at all, is a miracle because the system is not set up to operate that way. It is set up for recidivism. Jails overseas, particularly Asian jails, are far worse than our system and the corruption inside and out is worse too.

Here you have two blokes, who have "supposedly" been rehabilitated who could be, far more valuable alive than dead, to both countries.

I agree with the questions you are asking, we won't get answer from our government. My opinion is one from looking outside the box.
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grassy1
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by grassy1 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:51 pm

I don't want them facing the Firing Squad,but have they turned in their suppliers yet?It might,might just help.

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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by Crazyman » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:05 pm

I am disgusted that this is happening - should have happened at least 5 years ago :wink:

Seriously though, if you take drugs through a country (or is that cuntry) where you know the death penalty awaits, what do you expect when you get busted?
Sorry gov'ner, was an honest mistake, won't happen again...

These guys are getting the punishment that is handed to them. My only gripe is that it is a double standard that the Indonesian govt has...surely if it's ok for westerner's to die, then it's ok for their citizens as well...if not, then they shouldn't apply the death penalty to anyone...

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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by grassy1 » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:26 pm

Hypocrisy seems to run rife on both sides of the Capital Punishment debate and from Nationalist point of view,Crazy.

What a mess!

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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by MH_Bomber » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:37 pm

Meanwhile, four naval warships that were in Bali waters for the transfer of the Bali nine duo, are now heading to Nusakambangan to secure the area ahead of the executions.
Sorry but the Indonesians are pack of complete wankers. 4 naval ships - give me a break.
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BenDoolan
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:47 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:
Meanwhile, four naval warships that were in Bali waters for the transfer of the Bali nine duo, are now heading to Nusakambangan to secure the area ahead of the executions.
Sorry but the Indonesians are pack of complete wankers. 4 naval ships - give me a break.
Maybe Abbott can "stop the boats"?
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by mdso » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:17 pm

grassy1 wrote:I don't want them facing the Firing Squad,but have they turned in their suppliers yet?It might,might just help.

Would NOT make any difference at all, they would bribe their way out of trouble for a fine and NO TIME.
Last edited by mdso on Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mdso
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by mdso » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:17 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:
Meanwhile, four naval warships that were in Bali waters for the transfer of the Bali nine duo, are now heading to Nusakambangan to secure the area ahead of the executions.
Sorry but the Indonesians are pack of complete wankers. 4 naval ships - give me a break.

Probably four rubber duckies!
Nothing usually happens until something happens.

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j-mac31
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by j-mac31 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:16 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:It is like they are deliberately rubbing salt in Australia's wounds.
What?

It doesn't make a f****** bit of difference. A group of men (including two Australians) are about to be executed, but we're sooking about how they get to the island? ](*,)

Also, they're only doing this sort of shit because of the reactions of people like you and comments by the PM and the like.
Aaron Francis is the Messiah.

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MH_Bomber
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by MH_Bomber » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:21 pm

I take offence as being described as being lumped into a generic mass that you no doubt dub bleeding heart liberals with the term "people like me".

All I have put forward on this forum is my own opinion and no matter what way you cut it executing these two men wont save lives, wont stop the drug trade, it wont stop people trying heroin for the first time and it wont stop organised crime taking advantage of a prohibition market place. All that will be achieved is the state killing two men that by all accounts have reformed themselves.

In the overall scheme of things these two have done precisely jack shit if you want to compare severity of crimes.
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mdso
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by mdso » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:25 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:I take offence as being described as being lumped into a generic mass that you no doubt dub bleeding heart liberals with the term "people like me".

All I have put forward on this forum is my own opinion and no matter what way you cut it executing these two men wont save lives, wont stop the drug trade, it wont stop people trying heroin for the first time and it wont stop organised crime taking advantage of a prohibition market place. All that will be achieved is the state killing two men that by all accounts have reformed themselves.

In the overall scheme of things these two have done precisely jack shit if you want to compare severity of crimes.

I agree with most of what you have said. The State doesn't care one way or the other, the system is corrupt from the top down, not just there but also here. People have been conditioned to believe the Law or The Justice System will take care of it and keep us all safe, which is utter rubbish.
Whatever has been done to combat the drug trade has NOT worked around the world, we just keep doing more of what doesn't work.
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j-mac31
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by j-mac31 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:05 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:I take offence as being described as being lumped into a generic mass that you no doubt dub bleeding heart liberals with the term "people like me".
...
In the overall scheme of things these two have done precisely jack shit if you want to compare severity of crimes.
I don't consider you or anyone bleeding heart liberals. And if you've read all my posts, you'll notice I'm also against the death penalty and agree it does not serve any real purpose, despite BS claims of supporters.

But anything that happens in between court hearings and facing the firing squad DOESN'T MAKE A f****** BIT OF DIFFERENCE TO ANYTHING.
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by j-mac31 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:06 pm

Also Pakistan has just announced they will be restarting executions, despite corruption and torture being used. Wrong, wrong, wrong?
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tonysoprano
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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by tonysoprano » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:38 pm

j-mac31 wrote:Also Pakistan has just announced they will be restarting executions, despite corruption and torture being used. Wrong, wrong, wrong?
Close to everything about Pakistan is wrong, and has been for generations.

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Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by MH_Bomber » Thu Mar 12, 2015 3:39 pm

JMac it may have made a difference to how people that about to face the firing squad cope with their transportation. I really felt for them because they were shackled and led along by balaclava wearing special ops types and then witnessed hundreds of cops out in force lining the streets. Pure and simply the Indonesian handling of this entire thing is over the top and morally bankrupt.
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