Mercy Campaign

Talk here about anything that isn't covered by the other boards....
mdso
Club Captain
Posts: 2926
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:55 am
Location: Merimbula, Far South Coast of N.SW.

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by mdso » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:50 am

One thing this drama shows and we are now very clear on, if you plan on breaking the law and drugs are involved, don't do it overseas.

Again Australia thinks it has a voice in world, when in actual fact, we are in a goldfish bowl and are hearing our own echo. No one is interested in what we have to say on the death penalty issue particularly, Indonesia. They have now turned down the volume and are not listening. The outcome is unfortunately, a self fulfilling prophecy.

The first time Andrew Chan and his mules got away with it, the next time; they all got caught courtesy of the Australian Federal Police and Scott Rush's parents. BTW: I do not believe in the death penalty. Nor do I believe the death penalty for any crime, makes any difference to overall crime numbers. All it does is it makes room for the next person to take the bed of the last.
Nothing usually happens until something happens.

User avatar
MH_Bomber
Club Captain
Posts: 3108
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:16 pm
Location: Hughesdale

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by MH_Bomber » Fri Mar 13, 2015 4:50 am

mdso wrote:
Again Australia thinks it has a voice in world, when in actual fact, we are in a goldfish bowl and are hearing our own echo. No one is interested in what we have to say on the death penalty issue particularly, Indonesia. They have now turned down the volume and are not listening. The outcome is unfortunately, a self fulfilling prophecy.
I wouldnt underestimate that the Indonesians are listening to us. They would explain why one of their Ministers threatened to unleash a tsunami of refugees.
If Canberra keeps doing things that displease Indonesia, Jakarta will surely let the illegal immigrants go to Australia.

Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs, Tedjo Edhy Purdijatno
We are not the only country that is pressuring Indonesia over this. I think this mainly due to the fact that these drug mules are underlinings in a much bigger game. The death penalty does not fit the crime.

I dont think there would be the same outcry if any of the 10 currently on death row for drug smuggling charges had been murderers.
Regards

MH_Bomber

User avatar
BenDoolan
Essendon Legend
Posts: 23820
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:10 pm

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:11 am

MH_Bomber wrote:
mdso wrote:
Again Australia thinks it has a voice in world, when in actual fact, we are in a goldfish bowl and are hearing our own echo. No one is interested in what we have to say on the death penalty issue particularly, Indonesia. They have now turned down the volume and are not listening. The outcome is unfortunately, a self fulfilling prophecy.
I wouldnt underestimate that the Indonesians are listening to us. They would explain why one of their Ministers threatened to unleash a tsunami of refugees.
If Canberra keeps doing things that displease Indonesia, Jakarta will surely let the illegal immigrants go to Australia.

Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs, Tedjo Edhy Purdijatno
We are not the only country that is pressuring Indonesia over this. I think this mainly due to the fact that these drug mules are underlinings in a much bigger game. The death penalty does not fit the crime.

I dont think there would be the same outcry if any of the 10 currently on death row for drug smuggling charges had been murderers.
Here's a tip: Indonesia have seriously tough laws on drugs. And they carry them out. They don't give a shit if you're a mule or a ring leader or the big banana. Don't risk it.
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

User avatar
j-mac31
Essendon Legend
Posts: 15233
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:13 pm
Location: The city of brotherly love (Detroit)

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by j-mac31 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:02 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:JMac it may have made a difference to how people that about to face the firing squad cope with their transportation.
They're going to be tied up, blindfolded and shot. Who's surrounding them as they walk from a plane to another prison is nothing.
Aaron Francis is the Messiah.

nudder12
Regular Senior Player
Posts: 1303
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:47 pm

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by nudder12 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:57 pm

mdso wrote: Again Australia thinks it has a voice in world, when in actual fact, we are in a goldfish bowl and are hearing our own echo. No one is interested in what we have to say on the death penalty issue particularly, Indonesia. They have now turned down the volume and are not listening. The outcome is unfortunately, a self fulfilling prophecy.
I'm really only taking a passing interest in all this these days (just sick and tired of the endless commentary and speculation), but I have certainly noticed that Australian voices aren't alone in calling for clemency and an end to the death penalty. It's everywhere if you care to look (or even if you don't, as in my case).
I think it's no coincidence that Indonesia has reportedly said it may reconsider the death penalty, and that they have (now) repeatedly delayed the executions. IMHO that's because they're easing their way into a situation where they can avoid going ahead with the execution of these 2.

User avatar
little_ripper
Club Captain
Posts: 3816
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:46 am
Location: At a computer screen, punching out garbage on BT.

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by little_ripper » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:57 pm

MH_Bomber wrote:I hope no one you know never stuffs up and makes a bad mistake.
Didn't these two organise 7 others to traffic drugs as well. From a country where they make it absolutely clear.it's punishable by death? They were the ring leaders remember.

Bad people. Who knowing the industry they are in might have killed people themselves.

User avatar
Gimps
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 7680
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:11 pm
Location: Bumfuck Idaho

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by Gimps » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:07 pm

little_ripper wrote:
MH_Bomber wrote:I hope no one you know never stuffs up and makes a bad mistake.
Didn't these two organise 7 others to traffic drugs as well. From a country where they make it absolutely clear.it's punishable by death? They were the ring leaders remember.

Bad people. Who knowing the industry they are in might have killed people themselves.
Agreed.

User avatar
BenDoolan
Essendon Legend
Posts: 23820
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:10 pm

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:40 pm

Let's be clear. What they did was not a mistake. What they did was an intentional, deliberate, pre-meditated criminal act that is punishable by death.
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

User avatar
tonysoprano
Club Captain
Posts: 4332
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by tonysoprano » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:21 pm

BenDoolan wrote:Let's be clear. What they did was not a mistake. What they did was an intentional, deliberate, pre-meditated criminal act that is punishable by death.
Arbitrarily punishable by death.
I also can't help but notice the intentional, deliberate, and pre-meditated act that the government of Indonesia is also carrying out. And this is a mistake.

Crazyman
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 6489
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:51 pm
Location: Sydney (Don't hold it against me)
Contact:

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by Crazyman » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:34 pm

I still say that the biggest issue I have is the Hypocrisy of the Indonesian govt...

How many Indonesians have been put to pasture for the same crime compared to foreigners?
How hard does Indonesia push to save it's citizens form death penalties for equally (and sometimes more) serious crimes including murder, rape, etc...?

Appreciate that these guys have changed their lives around and have made a difference in the lives of others.
Yes, they are examples of how people can change, but how many hardened crims genuinely make that change?
At the end of the day, if you traffic drugs through Indonesia, you know the consequences...HOWEVER, Indonesia's govt needs to stop being hypocrites and apply the same punishments equally or commute these sentences and I can't see that happening anywhere...

User avatar
BenDoolan
Essendon Legend
Posts: 23820
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:10 pm

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:48 pm

tonysoprano wrote:
BenDoolan wrote:Let's be clear. What they did was not a mistake. What they did was an intentional, deliberate, pre-meditated criminal act that is punishable by death.
Arbitrarily punishable by death.
I also can't help but notice the intentional, deliberate, and pre-meditated act that the government of Indonesia is also carrying out. And this is a mistake.
No it's not. The Indonesian government did not make these guys do the crime. These guys elected to receive such a punishment by commiting the crime that is clearly punishable by death. It is not a mistake by their government whatsoever.

It's like saying the government is also performing an intentional, deliberate and pre-meditated act of incarcerating criminals. And that it's a mistake.

Ridiculous.
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

User avatar
Gimps
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 7680
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:11 pm
Location: Bumfuck Idaho

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by Gimps » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:16 pm

BenDoolan wrote:
tonysoprano wrote:
BenDoolan wrote:Let's be clear. What they did was not a mistake. What they did was an intentional, deliberate, pre-meditated criminal act that is punishable by death.
Arbitrarily punishable by death.
I also can't help but notice the intentional, deliberate, and pre-meditated act that the government of Indonesia is also carrying out. And this is a mistake.
No it's not. The Indonesian government did not make these guys do the crime. These guys elected to receive such a punishment by commiting the crime that is clearly punishable by death. It is not a mistake by their government whatsoever.

It's like saying the government is also performing an intentional, deliberate and pre-meditated act of incarcerating criminals. And that it's a mistake.

Ridiculous.
This, this, f****** THIS.

User avatar
tonysoprano
Club Captain
Posts: 4332
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:31 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by tonysoprano » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:41 pm

BenDoolan wrote:
tonysoprano wrote:
BenDoolan wrote:Let's be clear. What they did was not a mistake. What they did was an intentional, deliberate, pre-meditated criminal act that is punishable by death.
Arbitrarily punishable by death.
I also can't help but notice the intentional, deliberate, and pre-meditated act that the government of Indonesia is also carrying out. And this is a mistake.
No it's not. The Indonesian government did not make these guys do the crime. These guys elected to receive such a punishment by commiting the crime that is clearly punishable by death. It is not a mistake by their government whatsoever.

It's like saying the government is also performing an intentional, deliberate and pre-meditated act of incarcerating criminals. And that it's a mistake.

Ridiculous.
Haha! I knew that was coming. My use of the word mistake was deliberate, and deliberately contrary to your use of the word.

"Mistake" as in "accidental" - then of course what they did wasn't an accident. "Mistake" as in "this is the wrong (moral, legal, and ethical) course of action in my opinion" - then I absolutely think their actions as traffickers and the actions of Indonesia to execute are both mistakes. I stand by my earlier views that killing people solves nothing and makes our world a lesser place (as does drug trafficking).

I'm not sure its "clearly punishable by death" either - that is an arbitrary penalty - it does not have to be utilised (as evidenced by their previous President).

grassy1
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 6431
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:48 pm

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by grassy1 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:45 pm

They can execute Mules and Kid themselves they are Tough on Drug Traffickers!

They can also let us know,when they've potted the Big boys!

Next Century!

Hope they don't have the Mexican Cartels to deal with.You get the f*** in their way,you're f*****!

Perhaps such a problem might force the hand of a Government who claims they " are awash with drugs" !

User avatar
BenDoolan
Essendon Legend
Posts: 23820
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:10 pm

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:08 pm

grassy1 wrote:They can execute Mules and Kid themselves they are Tough on Drug Traffickers!

They can also let us know,when they've potted the Big boys!

Next Century!

Hope they don't have the Mexican Cartels to deal with.You get the f*** in their way,you're f*****!

Perhaps such a problem might force the hand of a Government who claims they " are awash with drugs" !
They are not mules, they are ringleaders and organisers. Most people don't even know that Chan recruited a 15 year old and 17 year old to act as mules. And when they were caught, he sent them a threatening letter to not talk. Despicable c***.

They were importing 83,000 hits of heroin.

You make them sound like they were importing bags of fairy floss.
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

grassy1
Champion of Essendon
Posts: 6431
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:48 pm

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by grassy1 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:19 am

No Ben,whilst Chan did what he did,you don't think they were trafficking that SHIT on behalf of someone else?

Can you tell me how often these countries with the Death Penalty for Trafficking Drugss have executed Crime Bosses our High Ranking Government,Law enforcement,or Military Officials?


Indonesia's had the Death Penalty for this for Decades,yet they are In their own President's words,"awash with drugs!"


Why?Has anything with the current laws in. Place,changed things for the better?

Nothing's happened yet has it?Checked The West Australian Website and it's well past midnight.

Only chance now is a last minute reprieve,Maybe the Phillipiono lady could get one,as many people believe she was Stitched up!Don't suppose any Time Travelling Teleporters can get 'em out out of this mess?

User avatar
MH_Bomber
Club Captain
Posts: 3108
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:16 pm
Location: Hughesdale

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by MH_Bomber » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:37 am

HEADLINE.

Drug trade comes to a complete halt as a result of executing Chan and Sukarmaran and 6 others (not the Philipino woman).

It will deter no-one. Heroin addicts will still get their smack one way or the other. It doesnt matter whether you execute 1 or 1000 people. The illegal trade will not stop. Where there is a buck to be made in a prohibited market people will still do stupid things and try and beat the system.

All I can say is that having lost people close to me in my life, to just sanction the death of people in this way and throw people lives away like so much garbage is an utter disgrace.

The other thing is that challenges were still afoot in the Indonesian 'justice' system. How can you kill people when the entire process is corrupt. I guess the families of the two men wish they had more money to bribe these c-nts of judges. Perhaps they would still be alive today.
Regards

MH_Bomber

User avatar
BenDoolan
Essendon Legend
Posts: 23820
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:10 pm

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:45 am

MH_Bomber wrote:HEADLINE.

Drug trade comes to a complete halt as a result of executing Chan and Sukarmaran and 6 others (not the Philipino woman).

It will deter no-one. Heroin addicts will still get their smack one way or the other. It doesnt matter whether you execute 1 or 1000 people. The illegal trade will not stop. Where there is a buck to be made in a prohibited market people will still do stupid things and try and beat the system.

All I can say is that having lost people close to me in my life, to just sanction the death of people in this way and throw people lives away like so much garbage is an utter disgrace.

The other thing is that challenges were still afoot in the Indonesian 'justice' system. How can you kill people when the entire process is corrupt. I guess the families of the two men wish they had more money to bribe these c-nts of judges. Perhaps they would still be alive today.
It's posts like this that make me support their system even more...
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

User avatar
MH_Bomber
Club Captain
Posts: 3108
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:16 pm
Location: Hughesdale

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by MH_Bomber » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:07 am

Why?

If Indonesia is so pro the death penalty then why does it plead for its own citizens lives on death row overseas ? They are so hypocritical on this issue its a joke. Cant you at least acknowledge that. There is no moral high ground for the Indonesians on this. Their system is corrupt when you can bribe judges to save yourself the death penalty. Why should the fact that you a rich drug smuggler as opposed to a poor one save your life ? It stinks to high heaven.
Regards

MH_Bomber

User avatar
BenDoolan
Essendon Legend
Posts: 23820
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:10 pm

Re: Mercy Campaign

Post by BenDoolan » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:02 am

MH_Bomber wrote:Why?

If Indonesia is so pro the death penalty then why does it plead for its own citizens lives on death row overseas ? They are so hypocritical on this issue its a joke. Cant you at least acknowledge that. There is no moral high ground for the Indonesians on this. Their system is corrupt when you can bribe judges to save yourself the death penalty. Why should the fact that you a rich drug smuggler as opposed to a poor one save your life ? It stinks to high heaven.
Corruption exists in all systems.

Did you have sympathy for Muklas and Amrosi?
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests