The damage done by Quinn.

[nomolos]

Its not going to be the adapting to "new training" methods that is the problems its the recovery from injuries.

Its going to be down to medical staff and rehab/physio's to get everyone right.

If you go into a "new training" method with injuries then this where it causes trouble, going in injury free means a clean slate, and people dont have to frig around with "modified" programs.

In terms of when we see the benefits of the "new training" methods and because of our injury issues then that might be a awhile.

[BenDoolan]

Not sure Quinn had anything to do with the "training methods" at all. That is all Knighta's design.

I think you are referring to "strength and conditioning" applicable to the needs of training programs and rigours of match day footy.

And don't forget about the responsibilties of the individual themselves to work hard on the instructions they're given by the fitness team (I remember an article where Winderlich ignored repeated requests to do proper warm downs after training / matches and refused because he wanted to hop in his car and head home. The result was that Winderlich suffered numerous S/T injuries during 2004/05 because of his attitude). So it also comes down to some of our frequently injured, fragile chumps who do not treat their own bodies well.

[rockhole]

I just don't buy the "Quinn" factor as the key to all our injury woes.

I cannot believe that a club as professional as Essendon would perservere over the years with a guy who methods were causing our players to break down. Even with the miracles he worked for Hirdy, he would not be able to live off that if the club thought that his methods were causing the massive number of injuries that we have sustained.

I simply do not expect that the change in personel will be the sole reason for improvement if we finally overcome this shocking run of injuries.

[uptick]

I just don't buy the "Quinn" factor as the key to all our injury woes.

I cannot believe that a club as professional as Essendon would perservere over the years with a guy who methods were causing our players to break down. Even with the miracles he worked for Hirdy, he would not be able to live off that if the club thought that his methods were causing the massive number of injuries that we have sustained.

I simply do not expect that the change in personel will be the sole reason for improvement if we finally overcome this shocking run of injuries.

Agree 100% how many times do we read stories about so called "average" players, pulling their fingers out and actually getting very serious about diet, training, doing yoga (should be compulsory) etc and "suddenly" at 25, being a "star", but how does a club get a 19 - 21 year old to be that wise/dedicated ??

[andrewb]

Anyone who thinks that there is no relationship between the review into soft tissue injuries earlier in the year and the subsequent replacement of Quinn is kidding themselves. It's fairly clear based on the date of the announcement that we started seeking out Cormack immediately after the review completed.

Quinn is a great clubman - they're not going to get rid of him lightly - but he's been underperforming for years.

Remember, we have had a list for the last 15 years that has had four of the best players to EVER pull on an essendon jumper:

Hird
Lloyd
Lucas
Fletcher

And a number of players who will be remembered as all time club greats, including:

Misiti
Mercuri
Hardwick
JJ
MJ
Wellman
Long

These guys all came through at round about the same time, but we only had a two or three seasons in all those years where we could consistently field a fit team. We lost the prelim in 99 by one point with Hird out for the season (upset nonetheless) and we lost the flag in 2001 because Brisbane were fitter than us and we were carrying injuries to a number of players into the game (including Hird again). Everytime we played Brisbane from that point on we were run off our feet by a far fitter midfield unit. We have had a woeful record on bigger grounds.

There might be some logic in blaming the Telstra Dome surface (Hirdy certainly does) but I'm telling you right now that if other clubs are happy to publicly say that our head of fitness can't get his team AFL fit AND our fitness coach becomes a bargaining chip in trying to lure a kid like Gumbleton home then it is a BIG problem.

I'm looking forward to massive improvements across the board in a couple of years and if you want further proof, have a look at the long line of clubs that will be chasing Quinn's signature next year.

[BenDoolan]

Top post Andy and remember in 99 Lucas broke a leg!!

I am curious about people who say it isn't Quinns fault or that player A didn't follow instructions. If player A didn't follow instructions he should have been sacked on the spot as any recalcitrant employee would be anywhere else. I can't imagine too many other players not following instructions thereafter.

As for it not being Quinns fault.....all the hammies, OP's (3 this year), calfs, quads, skinny unmuscled kids running around compared to their peers....then who's fault is it....Skeeta's?

I really fear his incompetence, stubornness will take a couple of seasons to exorcise.

Was it Quinn's job to sack Winderlich? Why would you sack him just because he didn't follow Quinn's instructions? Players every week fail to carry out the coaches instructions on the field.....do you sack them all?

I agree Quinn is to blame for quite a bit of the injury status at the club. But some of you really need to get a real perspective that there is a combination of factors that contributes to player welfare, strength and conditioning. Such as the individual's attitude / physical shitness (e.g Dempsey's chalky bones and piss weak f***'n tissues), club physios, club doctors, fitness advisors, dieticians etc.

I don't think you were cursing Peter Power for our injuries in 1986/87 after he manufactured the fitness freaks that delivered us back to back flags in 1984/85, were you? Shit luck sometimes comes into it.

[Windy_Hill]

I would love to see the stats game time/hours lost to injuries across all AFL clubs. If Essendon is not way ahead in this dubious category, I will go he!

We have not had a stable team since 2000. Injuries to key players and protracted recovery time has been the blight of this club for 7 seasons - seven remarkably underwhelming seasons. Is it any wonder we have not been a finalist for 4 seasons now!!! we cant get a consistent 22 on the field - ever.

I dont know who or what is to blame but with all of this great club's millions just sitting in a bank, we should be spending a lot more on finding out the answers.

GET OFF YOUR ARSE PETER JACKSON AND FIND SOME ANSWERS. SACKING QUINN IS ONE STEP, HIRING WCE GUY IS ANOTHER. IF WE DONT HAVE THE BEST HIGH PERFORMANCE FITNESS AND TRAINING CENTRE WITHIN A YEAR I WILL BE DEMANDING ANSWERS.

[BenDoolan]

I would love to see the stats game time/hours lost to injuries across all AFL clubs. If Essendon is not way ahead in this dubious category, I will go he!

We have not had a stable team since 2000. Injuries to key players and protracted recovery time has been the blight of this club for 7 seasons - seven remarkably underwhelming seasons. Is it any wonder we have not been a finalist for 4 seasons now!!! we cant get a consistent 22 on the field - ever.

I dont know who or what is to blame but with all of this great club's millions just sitting in a bank, we should be spending a lot more on finding out the answers.

GET OFF YOUR ARSE PETER JACKSON AND FIND SOME ANSWERS. SACKING QUINN IS ONE STEP, HIRING WCE GUY IS ANOTHER. IF WE DONT HAVE THE BEST HIGH PERFORMANCE FITNESS AND TRAINING CENTRE WITHIN A YEAR I WILL BE DEMANDING ANSWERS.

[tom9779]

I would like to see the statistics which back up your claims.

Def 2008 has been a shocker and 2007 wasn't great re injuries. But otherwise, I do not know if we were any worse than average across the league? if it is, then heck i'll subscribe to whatever your having.

my gut feel is that I l think its our lack of 24-27 year olds at the club which is the root of our injury concerns.
imo young blokes and old blokes get injured.

and as i think i've quoted, the EFC is one hard at it footy club. 3rd in contest possessions, 1st in tackling for the year. comes at a price if you have a bunch of blokes not ready for it.

[Windy_Hill]

I would like to see the statistics which back up your claims.

Def 2008 has been a shocker and 2007 wasn't great re injuries. But otherwise, I do not know if we were any worse than average across the league? if it is, then heck i'll subscribe to whatever your having.

my gut feel is that I l think its our lack of 24-27 year olds at the club which is the root of our injury concerns.
imo young blokes and old blokes get injured.

and as i think i've quoted, the EFC is one hard at it footy club. 3rd in contest possessions, 1st in tackling for the year. comes at a price if you have a bunch of blokes not ready for it.

I am actually saying that I would love to see the stats - if i am wrong then so be it - I doubt that I am.

[Madden]

My final post on this subject.

The problems with injuries at Essendon are not just caused by Quinn. They are caused by a combination of the following factors:

1. Quinn and his experimental training methods, particularly in relation to s/t injuries. But lets have some perspective here. Quinn is a professional with qualifications, I find it highly unlikely (even despite his friendship with Sheedy) that he is a stark raving lunatic who has no idea. So there must be other factors at play - this brings me to factor 2;

2. Telstra Dome. Yes the surface has improved, but we still get more injuries (particularly stress related impact injuries, like stress fractures, knee soreness etc) after playing there - and particularly after we play two or more games in a row there. It is a documented fact that the surface is hard underneath - no matter how good they get the grass to look, that is always going to be the case. You will always always ALWAYS get more stress-related leg injuries by running around on a base of concrete rather than a normal soil base. But, you might say, the Bulldogs and North don't get as many injuries as us? And you're right, they don't. Which brings me to factor 3;

3. Windy Hill. The surface at Windy Hill is probably one of the two worst training surfaces in the entire competion. It is uneven, it is hard in some places and soft in others. The ground shifts under your feet far too easily. We have probably had more injuries sustained at training than any other team in the comp over the last two years.

But I hear you all say, what about the injuries to the young players in particular? Why are our young guys not fit? Is Quinn a crazy retard? Well no, I would say that the major factor behind that is...

4. Queen Elizabeth (QE) Oval (Bendigo). This ground is way too hard and not up to AFL standard (CJ is not planning to bring a lawsuit for no reason). Hard grounds are not only notorious for causing s/t injuries in younger players, but also don't help in relation to injuries where the body hits the ground (collarbones, knees, other fractures) - and we have had a lot of these sorts of injuries sustained in Bendigo games this year We were scheduled to play 9 games at QE Oval this year - Essendon has tried to shift as many as they can because they know that the ground is shit (they were able to shift 2-3 from memory). I have no doubt that playing on this ground has not been ideal for our younger players whose bodies are still developing.

So, you ask, if these are the problems, then why hasn't Essendon done anything about them? Well the answer to that is the final factor...

5. Essendon are tight. While clubs like Adelaide, West Coast and Collingwood continue to spend more and more on their football departments every year, Essendon are langusishing around midfield. Essendon has a long and storied history (which I won't detail) of having deep pockets and short arms. Having said that, I have always been of the opinion that Peter Jackson is one of the men stopping more money from being spent on the football department. He is a gun, but I have a feeling that he would rather post a healthy profit (in order to keep him in a job and increase his future employment prospects - both understandable) than see the money spent on improving facilities, rehab, employing more medical staff etc. Most Essendon supporters I'm sure would rather see the club make a profit of $0 and instead see these areas improved upon to set a league-best practice. Essendon needs never to lose sight of the fact that they are running a club and not a business.

So that's it. I have no doubt that the removal of Quinn will bear some fruit. But I will bet my last dollar that our wretched run with injuries will continue until these other factors are recognised and rectified.

[swoodley]

My final post on this subject.

The problems with injuries at Essendon are not just caused by Quinn. They are caused by a combination of the following factors:

1. Quinn and his experimental training methods, particularly in relation to s/t injuries. But lets have some perspective here. Quinn is a professional with qualifications, I find it highly likely (even despite his friendship with Sheedy) that he is a stark raving lunatic who has no idea. So there must be other factors at play - this brings me to factor 2

Freudian slip there Staggy

[Doctor Fish]

From my playing days way back in a previous century, I had a lot of knee problems. The specialists back then used to say it all comes down to genetics. The card you're dealt from day one will determine how injury free your sporting career will be. I just wonder if our playing list had some of these chronic injuries before they signed on at the club...

If anyone knows, It'd be interesting to find out.

[uptick]

Wasn't Windy Hill resurfaced within the past three years ?????

[Madden]

My final post on this subject.

The problems with injuries at Essendon are not just caused by Quinn. They are caused by a combination of the following factors:

1. Quinn and his experimental training methods, particularly in relation to s/t injuries. But lets have some perspective here. Quinn is a professional with qualifications, I find it highly likely (even despite his friendship with Sheedy) that he is a stark raving lunatic who has no idea. So there must be other factors at play - this brings me to factor 2

Freudian slip there Staggy

have fixed up! thanks for pointing that out.

... you knew what I meant though

[jimmyc1985]

4. Queen Elizabeth (QE) Oval (Bendigo). This ground is way too hard and not up to AFL standard (CJ is not planning to bring a lawsuit for no reason).

Johns did his knee at Port Melbourne's TEAC Oval.

I agree with the other parts of your post though. There's a range of factors involved. One other one i'd add is that we just seem to have more injury-prone players on our list than other clubs - guys like Gumbleton, Neagle, Dempsey, Lee etc just seem to be chronically injury prone and i personally wonder whether anything would be different if they were at other clubs.

[Windy_Hill]

Wasn't Windy Hill resurfaced within the past three years ?????

Are you suggesting that I may have had some hair regeneration work done??

[billyduckworth]

Excellent post, staggy.
There are many factors at work. Quinn is just one of them.
We need to look at ALL aspects and spend whatever it takes to fix this.
Otherwise, we will never challenge again for a premiership.

[Lenni]

OK, many may not agree with me, but... I think there are many contributing factors at play. Oh, I do believe Quinn had to go, but we also have a very young list of lads and many of them will still be growing so that means that even with conditioning etc their bodies are more prone to muscle and skeletal issues. And also, there has always been a diffence between AFL and nonAFL football comps, except that with the speed, endurance and skill required to be a player nowdays it is so much more an elite athlete situation, and what other finely tuned elite athletes in the world have so much body contact with a competitor? Maybe we need to look at where and how all these young bodies are coming up through the ranks and also try to close the ever widening gap between what's required at an under 18 and also a VFL reserves level compared to an AFL level.

[pevfan]

The example I always refer to is Scott Camporeale. Hardly had an injury in over 200 game career with the Scum. Comes across to Essendon and does his hammy almost straight away. Something wrong there surely.

The bloke I'm keeping my eye on now is Hansen at Norf cos it was seemingly a toss up between he and Gumbleton as to which one we would chose as our 1st round draft pick. Well, Hanson looks like he is just starting to find his feet now. At least he is getting onto the park and being given every chance to make it, which sadly, is more than we can say about Gumby ATM