f*** off..c***

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Windy Hille
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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by Windy Hille » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:34 pm

grassy1 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:33 pm
Well I can’t,because some c*** of a Perth Supporter hastened my ban,then rubbed it a few weeks back.In case you’re reading this DD,see you at the Footy,Pal! :evil:

As for Bruce,I can only applaud him for sticking his neck out for us,given he follows Sydney,doesn’t he?

It’s a pity he ultimately seems to have hit a brick wall,whatever his methods and theories.

If Bruce was so wrong though,why didn’t the Media just out and rubbish him?It was too easy to ignore him as though he never existed.Much harder to discuss his theories and dismiss them.Unless something or somebody wouldn’t let them?Any guesses as to whom? :-" :roll:

At least Bonce told us his thoughts,whether we agreed with them or not.
You should be able to write to the moderators and explain your side.

Just on bruce again, do you have any connections in regards to this entry in Wikipedia?

“Bruce Francis actually outsmarted Cricket Australia, Bob Merriman and Kerry Packer.”

What was his contribution and how did he “outsmart” them?

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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by grassy1 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:42 pm

Not going to bother writing to Admin on Ozfooty Windy,if it’s who I think it is.

As for Bruce,no I wasn’t aware of what you mentioned.Will check it out in a day or so,,but I won’t get my Hopes up in relation to The Club.

Barring anything falling off the back of a truck,the past few years are pretty much Done and Dusted.

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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by desmondo » Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:43 pm

nudder12 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:45 am
Leaving aside Bruce Francis - except to say I admire his passion, and, that while maybe he had some valid points, they were mostly just far too hard to comprehend among his "rants" - I'm with Boncer on the overall issue.
EFC, and all associated, deserved their punishments.
They were not stupid, or naive, or conned, or setup, or anything else.
As a multi-million dollar business, and with the care of all it's employees involved, they had an onus to conduct due diligence and ensure the program was legit - in all respects. They failed.
There may be a lack of proof that any illegal substances were involved, but the Club have provided no proof that they weren't illegal either.
You may say the onus of proof is to prove guilt, but when it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and all you can say is "it isn't a duck", you're likely to be unsuccessful in your defence.
As for Dank, well, really, is there any doubt? Despite all his promises and threats, he hasn't once provided even the most meagre evidence that what he did was legal. No effort to prove his own honour let alone the Club's. One can only assume that's because he has no such evidence. What on earth could he possibly have to gain by NOT revealing his "truth"??
Yeah, others may have gotten off with similar offences, but hey, that's life. Doesn't mean EFC were right.
EFC's only crime was being naive? No, sorry, ignorance is no excuse, naivety = complicity.
Keep fighting the fight? For what? All that is achieved is a memorial of the tarnished image of those involved.
Move on I say.
So if Bruce has some 'valid' points, let the powers that be, at least look into them, even if the rest of his work is too convoluted for the average joe, to me he seems to be very thorough, hence the convolution. I can`t believe that any-body would put so much work and effort into something if he thought, even for a moment, that he could be wrong, maybe the facts aren`t the facts?. But he fights on and I admire that work ethic.

EFC , and all associated, deserved their punishments.
I agree the club should have copped a fine for poor governance, but Hirdy, Bomber and the 34 were harshly treated considering the 'lack' of evidence, and when I say lack of, I mean f*** all. I`m glad you`re not a judge nudder. :lol:

So if we were not stupid, conned, naive, set-up or all the above, are you saying that people in the club deliberately set out to use illegal drugs and cheat the system?.

And by the way, the AFL is the one that had a 'ultimate' duty of care as the employer of all, to check on all clubs to ensure that governance and rules were being followed, i`s dotted and t`s crossed, BUT they never did obviously or the saga could never have been, does that not make them complicit?, don`t they have a case to answer?.

As for dank, if he had ANYTHING that could have helped our case and hasn`t used it, or said anything, he is a c***. Actually I think he is regardless.

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Re: f*** off..

Post by Gimps » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:35 pm

boncer34 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:17 pm
Word is nothing to panic about guys.
This aged well.

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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by nudder12 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:22 am

desmondo wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 6:43 pm
nudder12 wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:45 am
Leaving aside Bruce Francis - except to say I admire his passion, and, that while maybe he had some valid points, they were mostly just far too hard to comprehend among his "rants" - I'm with Boncer on the overall issue.
EFC, and all associated, deserved their punishments.
They were not stupid, or naive, or conned, or setup, or anything else.
As a multi-million dollar business, and with the care of all it's employees involved, they had an onus to conduct due diligence and ensure the program was legit - in all respects. They failed.
There may be a lack of proof that any illegal substances were involved, but the Club have provided no proof that they weren't illegal either.
You may say the onus of proof is to prove guilt, but when it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and all you can say is "it isn't a duck", you're likely to be unsuccessful in your defence.
As for Dank, well, really, is there any doubt? Despite all his promises and threats, he hasn't once provided even the most meagre evidence that what he did was legal. No effort to prove his own honour let alone the Club's. One can only assume that's because he has no such evidence. What on earth could he possibly have to gain by NOT revealing his "truth"??
Yeah, others may have gotten off with similar offences, but hey, that's life. Doesn't mean EFC were right.
EFC's only crime was being naive? No, sorry, ignorance is no excuse, naivety = complicity.
Keep fighting the fight? For what? All that is achieved is a memorial of the tarnished image of those involved.
Move on I say.
So if Bruce has some 'valid' points, let the powers that be, at least look into them, even if the rest of his work is too convoluted for the average joe, to me he seems to be very thorough, hence the convolution. I can`t believe that any-body would put so much work and effort into something if he thought, even for a moment, that he could be wrong, maybe the facts aren`t the facts?. But he fights on and I admire that work ethic.

EFC , and all associated, deserved their punishments.
I agree the club should have copped a fine for poor governance, but Hirdy, Bomber and the 34 were harshly treated considering the 'lack' of evidence, and when I say lack of, I mean f*** all. I`m glad you`re not a judge nudder. :lol:

So if we were not stupid, conned, naive, set-up or all the above, are you saying that people in the club deliberately set out to use illegal drugs and cheat the system?.

And by the way, the AFL is the one that had a 'ultimate' duty of care as the employer of all, to check on all clubs to ensure that governance and rules were being followed, i`s dotted and t`s crossed, BUT they never did obviously or the saga could never have been, does that not make them complicit?, don`t they have a case to answer?.

As for dank, if he had ANYTHING that could have helped our case and hasn`t used it, or said anything, he is a c***. Actually I think he is regardless.
Bruce seemed to have valid points, but his convolution made them difficult to follow - for me anyway. I don't have the time to do all the cross-referencing required, nor access to some of his alleged evidence/details. Since he sent his arguments to all and sundry, I can only assume they were viewed by the powers that be, as well as media etc, and basically dismissed. I'm not saying he was wrong, but if there was truly a story in it, wouldn't media want to run with it and claim some scalps and bring down the almighty AFL? Again, not saying he wasn't right, but maybe he's just a crazy conspiracy theorist? They can often make things sound very convincing/logical when it's not - mostly by confusing everyone. As I said, I do admire his passion. Sorry if that all sounds anti-Bruce, I'm just offering other possibilities. I'm in no position to judge either way.

No idea if the Club set out to cheat the system, but like I said, they simply failed to govern the process effectively to ensure it was legit.
Ordinarily I'm quite lenient, and swayed by facts/evidence, but WADA don't operate by the same rules as the courts - you have to disprove an allegation. Due to the poor governance, EFC couldn't disprove it.

The AFL do have a case to answer for their own governance failures, and allegedly they've strengthened those strategies. But the bottom line is, as Boncer said, EFC deliberately hid their plan from the AFL. Either way, it was EFC that (allegedly) broke the rules and must pay the price.

Crazy that we're all still here discussing this - it's just prolonging the pain, in my view.

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Re: f*** off..

Post by nudder12 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:25 am

Gimps wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:35 pm
boncer34 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:17 pm
Word is nothing to panic about guys.
This aged well.
Hahahaha - in his defence, it doesn't say who has nothing to worry about!!! :)

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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by grassy1 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:08 am

I’m sure there’s other means for AWFULL to fall flat on their face.

Don’t know the picture your way,but I’m ever so curious to know what they extracted from the WA State Givernment out of the Perth Stadium deal they did,which of course,is in commercial confidenc.Taxpayers wouldn’t normally cop that,but with the public and WA Media in love with the stadium(as opposed to Test Cricket at the same venue :roll:),there’s not much chance of any investigative Journalism exposing anything out of order,save one journo whom out of fairness, I won’t name for some time.

The deal was done after the AFL Commission having contributed little that I know of towards building the Stadium,threatened to take the Football back to tired old Subiaco Oval,if the State Government didn’t cut them in on the action at Perth Stadium.

The State Government couldn’t run back quick enough to them and a deal was done.It might be just fine,except at the same time,the State Government was cutting funding to various Education bodies.Might have been just a bad coincidence,but it was a Badlook.

Having read the writings of The Atlantic’s Gregg Easterbrook,the conduct by the AFL and the WA Government had similar comparison in my eyes,to that of the NFL and various State Legislators,which has shown the Taxpayers of various US States,paying for the excesses of the NFL.

Refresh my memory of which sporting bodies the AFL visits on it’s visits to the USA?

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Re: f*** off..

Post by boncer34 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:01 am

Gimps wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:35 pm
boncer34 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:17 pm
Word is nothing to panic about guys.
This aged well.
Sure did. Think I've explained 10 times my initial mail was all about AOD. And they were right, we had nothing to worry about even after the AFL hung Watson out to dry on it.

Also :lol:
Gimps wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:13 am
A solid source has said that Collingwood is the team mentioned in the report.
Very solid source.
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Re: f*** off..

Post by Gimps » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:58 am

boncer34 wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:01 am
Gimps wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:35 pm
boncer34 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:17 pm
Word is nothing to panic about guys.
This aged well.
Sure did. Think I've explained 10 times my initial mail was all about AOD. And they were right, we had nothing to worry about even after the AFL hung Watson out to dry on it.

Also :lol:
Gimps wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:13 am
A solid source has said that Collingwood is the team mentioned in the report.
Very solid source.
Ha ha

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boncer34
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Re: f*** off..

Post by boncer34 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:13 pm

Gimps wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:58 am
boncer34 wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:01 am
Gimps wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:35 pm
boncer34 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:17 pm
Word is nothing to panic about guys.
This aged well.
Sure did. Think I've explained 10 times my initial mail was all about AOD. And they were right, we had nothing to worry about even after the AFL hung Watson out to dry on it.

Also :lol:
Gimps wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:13 am
A solid source has said that Collingwood is the team mentioned in the report.
Very solid source.
Ha ha
I knew you'd appreciate that. :wink:
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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by mdso » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:17 pm

When the media and everyone else says, the EFC did this and that the EFC in regard to the saga, it implicates absolutely everyone associated with Essendon. The facts are that everyone associated with the EFC weren't guilty. There were people at the top, on the Board, who knew what was going on and didn't lift a finger to stop it. Whether this was out of a sense of greed and wanting to win so much that several people were prepared to do anything including cheating or, perhaps, they had other ulterior motives? Unfortunately, we may never know because the evidence was either destroyed or it remains hidden somewhere. We all wore the blame and the shame of what occurred and always will in one way or another.

If the AFL had done their job properly, checked the paperwork of the clubs and followed up, the saga probably wouldn't have happened. The AFL were tipped off and knew early on and did nothing. Governance was a problem with 12 clubs. Meaning two thirds of the clubs were not following up and doing what they were supposed to be doing. And; no one from the AFL was checking to ensure the clubs. Who checks the checkers????

Has anything changed? Have all the clubs and the AFL learned from Essendon's mistakes and is it now all above board?

Thank you Bruce Francis and thanks to all who did their bit.
Nothing usually happens until something happens.

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boncer34
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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by boncer34 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:55 am

Again.

We ACTIVELY HID IT from the AFL. They couldn't "check the paperwork" because there was none to check.
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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by BenDoolan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:25 am

boncer34 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:55 am
Again.

We ACTIVELY HID IT from the AFL. They couldn't "check the paperwork" because there was none to check.
Just to be clear, after AFL Intergrity Officer, Brett Clothier warned Hird against using peptides in 2011 (after Hird enquired about them with ASADA), the integrity officer was not concerned when the club appointed Stephen Dank to the club? Surely he (and the AFL in general) would have known EFC were embarking on a supplements program when they themselves used Dank at the Suns.

You can’t have an officer of the AFL warning a club against a certain practice, then doing nothing about it once you know they were engaging in that practice. This is where WorkSafe were wrong in not prosecuting the AFL, and where Bruce is right in his argument.
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by boncer34 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:07 am

BenDoolan wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:25 am
boncer34 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:55 am
Again.

We ACTIVELY HID IT from the AFL. They couldn't "check the paperwork" because there was none to check.
Just to be clear, after AFL Intergrity Officer, Brett Clothier warned Hird against using peptides in 2011 (after Hird enquired about them with ASADA), the integrity officer was not concerned when the club appointed Stephen Dank to the club? Surely he (and the AFL in general) would have known EFC were embarking on a supplements program when they themselves used Dank at the Suns.

You can’t have an officer of the AFL warning a club against a certain practice, then doing nothing about it once you know they were engaging in that practice. This is where WorkSafe were wrong in not prosecuting the AFL, and where Bruce is right in his argument.
Except we told the AFL we had opted against employing Dank to oversee our program. Pretty hard for the AFL to monitor our engagement in the program when we told them it wasn't happening isn't it?

Hell we sent blood samples interstate back at the end of 2011 to be tested for WADA banned substances and it was kept so undercover that Doc Reid himself didn't even know we'd sent the samples away. We kept the details so hidden that even a bloke who worked there and interacted with the players on a daily basis was totally unaware how deep in it we were.

But the AFL who we hid this from after they warned us should've kept tabs on the program that we'd said absolutely wasn't happening and only a very small handful in the club knew about?
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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by BenDoolan » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:46 pm

boncer34 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:07 am
BenDoolan wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:25 am
boncer34 wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:55 am
Again.

We ACTIVELY HID IT from the AFL. They couldn't "check the paperwork" because there was none to check.
Just to be clear, after AFL Intergrity Officer, Brett Clothier warned Hird against using peptides in 2011 (after Hird enquired about them with ASADA), the integrity officer was not concerned when the club appointed Stephen Dank to the club? Surely he (and the AFL in general) would have known EFC were embarking on a supplements program when they themselves used Dank at the Suns.

You can’t have an officer of the AFL warning a club against a certain practice, then doing nothing about it once you know they were engaging in that practice. This is where WorkSafe were wrong in not prosecuting the AFL, and where Bruce is right in his argument.
Except we told the AFL we had opted against employing Dank to oversee our program. Pretty hard for the AFL to monitor our engagement in the program when we told them it wasn't happening isn't it?
When did we tell them this? And why would we go to the AFL to tell them “we haven’t employed” someone???

Are you actually saying we hid the appointment of Robinson and Dank (both of whom were involved at the AFL run Suns prior to joining Essendon)?
Hell we sent blood samples interstate back at the end of 2011 to be tested for WADA banned substances and it was kept so undercover that Doc Reid himself didn't even know we'd sent the samples away. We kept the details so hidden that even a bloke who worked there and interacted with the players on a daily basis was totally unaware how deep in it we were.
Who did this?

And didn’t the AFL send our samples away?

THE AFL arranged for special testing of samples from Essendon players during 2012, months before the club's supplements scandal broke.

In a surprising twist, a video on YouTube has emerged featuring a speech from AFL medical officer Peter Harcourt last November at an anti-doping conference in Zurich.

Harcourt reveals the overseas testing and makes several strong comments about what Essendon's controversial 2012 supplements program involved
.”
But the AFL who we hid this from after they warned us should've kept tabs on the program that we'd said absolutely wasn't happening and only a very small handful in the club knew about?
Who said it wasn’t happening? Hamilton??

I find it strange how no-one knew about our program despite some players squawking in the media about how they couldn’t fit into their jeans because of “the new program”.

I accept our incompetence in this whole saga. But you cannot excuse the AFL’s failings along the way. The integrity officer had an inkling, made contact with the club, and then walked away despite the appointment of Robinson and Dank thereafter. I find it hard to believe that “they didn’t know”, or “we hid it from them”. They were on the payroll. And the AFL medical officer knew we were involved in a supplements program in 2012.
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by nudder12 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:12 pm

I think we've already covered all this a couple of hundred pages ago! :)
Not having a go at anyone - I've repeated comments here too recently - but these conversations could go on forever. At least Gimps will be happy with the page tally rising and rising :)

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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by grassy1 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:40 pm

Well,we can keep it going for other reasons.

Mostly aimed at AWFULL!!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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boncer34
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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by boncer34 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:58 am

Benny. You know me multi quotes get messy and annoy me soooo

1) I'm not saying we hid the appointments of Dank and Robinson from the AFL or that we went to them and said "we didn't hire the guy." I'm saying the AFL warned us about peptides, which you acknowledge, and then when we hired Dank they came to us and said "Hey is this about the peptides program coz remember we warned you about that?" And we said "Nah he's doing something else."

2) That's 2012 Benny, we sent samples interstate in November 2011 to check for WADA banned substances.

3) I couldn't tell you which person specifically told the AFL we hadn't employed Dank to oversee the peptides program off the top of my head. I'd have to go back and ask questions and people I talk to, shockingly, refuse to answer questions over this anymore because their sick of it. And you can find it hard to believe all you want mate but we hid it from Doc Reid. You believe its impossible we hid it from people who weren't at the club every day but we were able to hide it from Doc Reid? The Doc believed we were injecting vitamins and amino acids and was horrified and flipped his shit when he found out it was AOD9046.

But Clothier didn't sit on his hands when we hired Dank they did ask us what he was doing and we said he was doing what he'd done at the Gold Coast which was work with a couple of players recovering from injury. NOT inject everyone at the club regardless of injury.

I'm not saying the AFL is faultless but Clothier warned against peptides, he asked about Dank and we responded. You're saying he shouldn't have trusted us? At that stage what reason did he have to not trust what we'd told him was true? He didn't know we'd injected the players until months into the program.
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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by BenDoolan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:43 am

boncer34 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:58 am
Benny. You know me multi quotes get messy and annoy me soooo

1) I'm not saying we hid the appointments of Dank and Robinson from the AFL or that we went to them and said "we didn't hire the guy." I'm saying the AFL warned us about peptides, which you acknowledge, and then when we hired Dank they came to us and said "Hey is this about the peptides program coz remember we warned you about that?" And we said "Nah he's doing something else."
Ok, let’s take the above as gospel. Why did the AFL send away blood samples for testing in 2012? Injections started in November 2011, and a few months later, blood samples were sent to Germany for PEiD’s. They knew we were running the program. Other clubs were in their ear. They did nothing to stop it - only sent bloods for testing. Which came back negative.
2) That's 2012 Benny, we sent samples interstate in November 2011 to check for WADA banned substances.
There’s no record of that. Injections began in November 2011. AFL sent samples a few months later to Germany (see above)
3) I couldn't tell you which person specifically told the AFL we hadn't employed Dank to oversee the peptides program off the top of my head. I'd have to go back and ask questions and people I talk to, shockingly, refuse to answer questions over this anymore because their sick of it. And you can find it hard to believe all you want mate but we hid it from Doc Reid. You believe its impossible we hid it from people who weren't at the club every day but we were able to hide it from Doc Reid? The Doc believed we were injecting vitamins and amino acids and was horrified and flipped his shit when he found out it was AOD9046.
Yep, we were sheisters. Not denying that. Disgrace. We are culpable and copped a massive whack. We’ve accepted that. There are others who are culpable, and they have so far been ‘excused’.
But Clothier didn't sit on his hands when we hired Dank they did ask us what he was doing and we said he was doing what he'd done at the Gold Coast which was work with a couple of players recovering from injury. NOT inject everyone at the club regardless of injury.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on the AFL’s culpability in all this.

Clothier’s title says it all. He failed in that regard. You can’t have 12 clubs with governance issues, some with similar problems in engaging in Dank to administer peptides, and call it a success.

It doesn’t matter if Dank injected players after injury or just part of a wholistic program. If the injections were legal, there is no problem. If they’re not, there is a problem. And there was a problem at our club, and at the Suns - right under the integrity officer’s nose.
I'm not saying the AFL is faultless but Clothier warned against peptides, he asked about Dank and we responded. You're saying he shouldn't have trusted us? At that stage what reason did he have to not trust what we'd told him was true? He didn't know we'd injected the players until months into the program.
Well, we trusted Dank that the injections were legal. Obviously, taking someone’s word isn’t enough. Did Clothier get it in writing? Well...there’s a failure of governance.

The AFL tried their darndest to try and isolate the issue to Essendon only. Essendon being the idiotic club it was, directly employed the prick, so it makes our club look rotten. But let’s ignore Dank’s Involvement in the Suns, Melbourne, Geelong - and who really knows who else.

Integrity officer. Well, what is he really doing if he isn’t checking the integrity of game?

Anyway, what’s done is done. It can’t be undone. But I don’t accept that the AFL did enough to prevent it from happening.
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

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Re: f*** off..c***

Post by s'dreams » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:05 pm

I hope that we win a final and make the GF soon so we can put this all behind us.

Although I thought we had, I think that success will be the only thing that salves the still gaping wounds.
dices ad adepto futui (tell them to f*** off)

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