Those Shown the Door....

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Daisy..1
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Those Shown the Door....

Post by Daisy..1 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:00 am

Z Clarke
T Mynott
J Long
T Jok

Best of Luck Kiddios!
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Crazyman
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by Crazyman » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:19 am

Not surprised.
Clarke here for one year to many.
Long for 2 years longer than he should have been.

Being in Sydney, didn't see much of Mynott or Jok, but though the club might have held onto Jok as a project player...maybe re-rookie him?

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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by mdso » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:54 am

Have we got our eyes on anyone in the draft or to rookie? Thought Mynott was unlucky had potential but maybe rookied?
Nothing usually happens until something happens.

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s'dreams
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by s'dreams » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:45 pm

mdso wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:54 am
Have we got our eyes on anyone in the draft or to rookie? Thought Mynott was unlucky had potential but maybe rookied?
I believe that you can only re-rookie a player so many times before you have to promote him. The club obviously had a knock on Mynott for some reason as he didnt get a senior game despite being around when the cupboard was bare.

I am really surprised at the decision re Jok. You make your debut in the 2nd last game of the year and show a bit. Then three weeks later you essentially win a VFL final off your own efforts... and then get cut

I would have thought that rerookieing him or moving him to the Category B rookie list would have been worthwhile (Jok would have had a better argument for a Cat B rookie than McNiece surely).

I can only conclude that with all the rookies bar Draper moved on (and I would have thought that Draper and Snelling would be promoted) and with only 4 cut from the senior list with Cutler and Phillips to be added ... that we won't be too active during the draft (two f****** days of it for f**** sake!!!!).

Maybe some jiggery pokery like moving Gown onto the rookie list to make another spot otherwise may have to cut another player or two.

Likely to be more active in the rookie draft.
dices ad adepto futui (tell them to f*** off)

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Windy_Hill
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by Windy_Hill » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:04 pm

Surely this is some kind of Jok(e)

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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by Rover99 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:37 pm

Feel for Jok. He had high hopes and tried his arse off but I always felt he was just never going to get there. IMHO something wrong with the way he used his body, no matter how hard he tried. Sad too that his family was so proudly comitted to him and Essendon. Maybe he'll go to the NBL. Arrividerci Jok! =D>

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s'dreams
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by s'dreams » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:14 pm

As someone said to me today - it seems that Woosha may have rated him somewhat but Ruttie doesn't.

Myself, I thought another year on a rookie list would not have been an issue given rookies are generally long term or risky speculations that rarely come off ... but I can only conclude that there are already designs on a number of potential rookies that Rutten thinks are better candidates for seniors spots in the longer term.
dices ad adepto futui (tell them to f*** off)

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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by Rover99 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:31 pm

s'dreams wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:14 pm
As someone said to me today - it seems that Woosha may have rated him somewhat but Ruttie doesn't.

Myself, I thought another year on a rookie list would not have been an issue given rookies are generally long term or risky speculations that rarely come off ... but I can only conclude that there are already designs on a number of potential rookies that Rutten thinks are better candidates for seniors spots in the longer term.
Well if Woosha thought he had promise then we made the right decision :D

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Windy_Hill
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by Windy_Hill » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:28 pm

So let me understand this and some smarty can fill in the blanks

OUT

Delisted

Jok
Long
Houlahan
Mynott
Clarke
McNiece

Retired

Myers
Dea
Baguely

IN

Trade

Cutler
Phillips


So where does that leave us regarding list position and draft numbers?

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s'dreams
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by s'dreams » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:59 pm

Windy_Hill wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:28 pm
So let me understand this and some smarty can fill in the blanks

OUT

Delisted

Jok
Long
Houlahan
Mynott
Clarke
McNiece

Retired

Myers
Dea
Baguely

IN

Trade

Cutler
Phillips

So where does that leave us regarding list position and draft numbers?
AFL Rules regarding Playing Lists

Clubs can have up to 44 players with a maximum of 6 rookies (ie they can have 38 players on senior list + 6 rookies... 39 seniors + 5 rookies ... 40P + 4R etc etc). Rookies exist only because they can be recruited/drafted on a 1 year contract, have a much lower minimum contract (but match payments are same) and 50% of a contracted player's salary can be outside the salary cap if they are rookied.

Up to 3 rookies can be kept on contract extensions for up to a maximum of 3 years on the list.

Up to 3 Category B rookies can be kept which are outside both the salary cap and the list numbers. However, clubs can only have one Irish player on the Category B list (though amusingly Sydney clubs can have 3 Category B rookies from one selections from the ACT or NSW).

The mid year selecton (MYS) also complicates things as players were recruited on 6 monthish deals to replace LTI's (so they were in excess of the 44 players)

Finally, clubs must use a minimum of 3 draft picks in the annual draft for the senior list. Players can be cut and redrafted with one of these picks. Also, players can be promoted from the rookie list to the main list with one of these mandated picks. I may be wrong but I believe that trading players for draft picks does not meet this requirement.

Essendon List Management for 2020
OK Now the parameters have been set, lets look at the specifics.

Essendon started the year with 39 players, 5 Cat A rookies and 2 Cat B rookies. It added Snelling as the MYS

Both Category B rookies left (Lavander, McNiece)

All but one Cat A rookie was cut/retired: Jok, Mynott, Clarke,Dea

4 players were cut/retired from the senior list: Long, Houlahan, Myers, Baguely

So, there are 35 senior and 1 Cat A rookie (Draper) so 36 players leaving 8 spots.

From here on in I will just focus on the total players (except for one complicated example)

Snelling was rookied & Cutler and Phillips recruited leaving 5 spots on both lists (dont know if Cutler or Phillips will be rookie or main list)

Essendon have recruited 2 promising young Irish players, Cian McBride and Ross McQuillan on two-year deals, but only one of these can be selected as a Cat B rookie, with the other needing to have Cat A status.

So that means 4 spots available on the main/rookie list.

Draper is likely to be promoted though he can be kept on the rookie list for another year before he has to be elevated.

Now assuming that no more players are cut from the list - that's where we stand (and there are perhaps players who may be worried, Brown and Hartley are currently out of contract, though Brown is likely to get another year).

The Draft

All this means that the club can use:
  • all four selections on main list players (keeping Draper as a rookie); or
  • one late selection to promote Draper and use 2 selections in the draft and either use last spot in the main draft, or on a rookie or hold over for the Pre season Draft (PSD)
  • three selections in the draft (keeping Draper as a rookie) and retain one spot for another rookie or a pre season draft pick
Essendon has (at this stage) picks 31, 33, 61, 64, 65, 88. Now normally we would say pick 64 is to promote Draper and use picks 31, 33 and 64 (or Use pick 64 to promote Draper, use picks 31 and 33 and hold over for the rookie draft)...

But now picks in a draft can be bundled and traded so who knows how these will be used on the second night (as we don't get a pick on the first night of the draft) ...
dices ad adepto futui (tell them to f*** off)

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Windy_Hill
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by Windy_Hill » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:48 pm

Fantastic analysis of the whole list management issue s’dreams.

That certainly clears up a whole lotta questions. I would assume that Draper will be elevated once back from injury....for some reason I thought he signed a new contract after the speculation that St Kilda were sniffing around?

I would imagine we will draft at least 3 players given the turnover this year

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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by s'dreams » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:47 am

Windy_Hill wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:48 pm
Fantastic analysis of the whole list management issue s’dreams.

That certainly clears up a whole lotta questions. I would assume that Draper will be elevated once back from injury....for some reason I thought he signed a new contract after the speculation that St Kilda were sniffing around?

I would imagine we will draft at least 3 players given the turnover this year
Draper is now on a 4 year contract, but does not need to be put onto the senior list in 2020. He will need to be in 2021 though. He can stay on the rookie list.

Even if he were kept on the rookie list - he can play 22 games next year. Cat A rookies can be selected at any time. Cat B rookies must be elevated to fill a long term injury.
dices ad adepto futui (tell them to f*** off)

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Windy_Hill
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by Windy_Hill » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:28 pm

So help me here, as I am struggling to decipher the Rosetta Stone that is the AFL’s list management rules....

If we use three draft picks do we still have room to recruit one or two DFA’s....there is some talk we are looking at Walker and Bastinac from Brisbane?

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s'dreams
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by s'dreams » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:34 pm

Windy_Hill wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:28 pm
So help me here, as I am struggling to decipher the Rosetta Stone that is the AFL’s list management rules....

If we use three draft picks do we still have room to recruit one or two DFA’s....there is some talk we are looking at Walker and Bastinac from Brisbane?
We currently have 4 spots on our list. We must use 3 draft picks one of which can be used to promote Draper (so only recruiting 2 new players to the club) or we can use 4 picks to recruit 4 new players through the draft and leave Draper on the Rookie ist.

If we use a draft pick on a DFA that counts as using a pick.

If we wait until the PSD or rookie draft or (lord heaven help me with this one) the "Supplemental Trade Period" to pick up the DFA, that does not count.
dices ad adepto futui (tell them to f*** off)

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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by nudder12 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:51 am

s'dreams wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:34 pm

We must use 3 draft picks one of which can be used to promote Draper (so only recruiting 2 new players to the club)
I think that's the key point in all of this.
One for Draper. And two new draftees. Given our draft selection order, and where our supposed "window" is, using our first 2 selections is the most viable option. Picks 60+ will gain us nothing.

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s'dreams
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by s'dreams » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:34 am

nudder12 wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:51 am
s'dreams wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:34 pm

We must use 3 draft picks one of which can be used to promote Draper (so only recruiting 2 new players to the club)
I think that's the key point in all of this.
One for Draper. And two new draftees. Given our draft selection order, and where our supposed "window" is, using our first 2 selections is the most viable option. Picks 60+ will gain us nothing.
Unless we pick up Mason Fletcher who was hidden by Calder by playing him as a forward all year - or try to be cheeky by picking Zach Sproule from the Giants (Cameron's long term replacement who has been on their Rookie list for 3 years, has been delisted so they can redraft him as a Rookie again)... would be great to say we poached a Giants key forward in 2019...
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Windy_Hill
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by Windy_Hill » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:21 pm

Mitch Brown gone. Wouldn’t be surprised if he got picked up as a depth player elsewhere

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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by MH_Bomber » Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:25 pm

The Mitch Brown decision is stupid especially given we have no idea about Joe.
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BenDoolan
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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by BenDoolan » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:42 pm

Shit decision on Brown. He’s been good ffs. And we keep Stewart :roll:
Unfortunately, you can't drown a witch!

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Re: Those Shown the Door....

Post by nudder12 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:58 pm

BenDoolan wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:42 pm
Shit decision on Brown. He’s been good ffs. And we keep Stewart :roll:
Yeah, really surprised and disappointed about Brown.
Hopefully we'll Rookie him.
Stewart lucky - staying because he's already contracted.

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