Trade Laycock Now

[Rossoneri]

Im not writing him off. He is improvig, but let himself down today with some soft efforts and poor kicking at the end.

Took some nice marks, but kicked poorly except for that one shot from outside 50 he had.

[duke]

Laycock played really well today, he just failed to convert his chances in front of goal. I'm confident that he's not too far away from having a breakout game where he gets his kicking boot on, and kicks 4 or 5 goals. I'm looking forward to him proving all the doubters wrong.

[Rossoneri]

Laycock played really well today, he just failed to convert his chances in front of goal. I'm confident that he's not too far away from having a breakout game where he gets his kicking boot on, and kicks 4 or 5 goals. I'm looking forward to him proving all the doubters wrong.

Wouldn't say really well. Did some nice things, coupled with some shit things. Was better than his past 3 or so games, slowly (very slowly) getting there. Needs to do the basics first, just win the tap and attack each contest as if its your last.

[andrewb]

The thing we all need to remember is that he is our second ruckman at the moment. There are 15 other teams in the comp that would love a second ruckman who had five gettable shots on goal in a game. All he needs to do is start kicking them. Ball seems to be sticking in the mits a bit better over the last couple of weeks - look for him to put in a good performance soon.

[jjono]

Laycock plays the game like it is basketball. He has no upper body strength and is too easily outmaneuvered in the contest, and he continually mistimes his leaps in the ruck contest. He is at his best when he is one out in a contest and can use his reach to trap (as opposed to mark) the ball. Normally an accurate kick - but let himself down badly today.

This bloke needs a HUGE pre-season -(one year too late -he should be AFL ready now). Many of us saw the photos of him over the pre-season and expressed disappointment about his flabby, un-AFL physique at the time. He might be another Dustin Fletcher or Josh Fraser, in which case we might not have a place for him long term. Ruck man are hard to come by - I'm prepared to give him one more year.

Not the reason we lost today. But He has the habit of positioning himself as the scapegoat. If this is his best attribute it will be a damn shame!

Possibly never a truer word written on BT!!!!

[gringo]

Laycock was far from our worst today. Indeed, his tap work in the centre square was bloody good. He's still got work to do and areas of his game to improve, but as far as a back-up ruckman goes, he's doing his job at the moment.

As far as the muppets pointing out his mistakes today - EVERYONE makes mistakes. It's just that when Layock gets the ball, you are expecting him to make one so when he does, you remember it. Some of Hille's errors today were frightful; much worse than missing a set shot at goal. Ironically, despite Hille's and Stanton's monster games, their mistakes in the final quarter cost us more than Laycock's did.

Let's just give up on this Laycock bashing. He'll be around next year, and rightfully so. With some confidence, he'll become a very handy ruckman. IT wasn't so long ago that Hille was in exactly the same position. Bagging Laycock is just popularist crap.

[dom_105]

I've noticed that Stantons late miss isn't mentioned.
Jetta's efforts aren't slammed.
Hille's effort when we were streaming forward in the last isn't mentioned.
Lucas slip slideing all over the place isn't mentioned.
NLM insitance on giving away stupid soft free kicks isn't mentioned.
But no Laycock cost us the game.

Couldn't agree more Bonce. Far out. This forum is quite biased at times. Some people always need a whipping boy I guess...

Well, Bradley, Henno and Bolton have moved on.

[stryper]

No I would keep him just a little longer...
Shows a lot of potential...
Need to keep this Guy as he could be very damaging in the future...
Backup for Hille who ran his ass off today and was exhausted...
Needs confidence and who knows???
Time will tell...
Others will go before this Man eg. Dyson - sorry but softer than butter - has had many chances!!!
Unfortunately just Not up to AFL standard...

[F111]

Laycock is slowly getting more of the ball every week. That in itself is an improvement.

He appears to have that laconic style that attracts criticism. Johnstone (Dees to Brissie) has it. It looks lazy.

He needs to stay in the team, and have a shot at getting more hands on the ball, getting more confidence and showing us what he can do. I see his season as just starting to warm up. He can improve substantially in the last few games. More marks, better mobility and a few goals.

And yes, a HUGE pre-season wouldn't go astray.

[ace076]

what I find more than a little amusing Filth, is that you would post what you have in a "Trade Laycock Now" thread. If he has all those short comings you mention (some are justified, some not), AND you claim it IS common knowledge, who in their right mind would trade anything for him? You cannot on one hand completely denigrate this guy as a footballer and a person, and then claim he has an ounce of trade value, surely that is completely contradicting. I think your views on Laycock have become more and more tarnished by the week where you have reached the point of no return. Anything less than an 8 goal, 15 marks, 30 hitouts, 9 clearances, 35 possession game is going to be shot down by you and many others around here. Your posts are usually well rounded however when commenting on Jason Laycock and your other whipping boy, John Quinn, your posts seem to be written by your alter ego.....ANGRY, UNREASONABLE, RAMBLING FILTHY.
Please don't find this post as an attack on you mate, because I actually look forward to reading your posts, but I really think you should give it a rest on these two topics, your logic and reasoning seems to fly out the window at a rapid rate.

[andrewb]

Filth, all good points. All I'm saying is that it wasn't his worst performance yesterday and I think he looks to be on the up again.

The "softness" issue is a bit of a concern. I don't actually think he's particularly soft - he definitely competes in the ruck and in marking contests (think the Jono Brown collision last week), he just seems to have a VERY high centre of gravity. If he gets a nudge in a stationary marking contest he seems very easy to move and I don't know what you can do to fix that. He's good above his head and although he's not necessarily a one grab player he seems to have great reflexes and will often pull down the two/three grab mark.

Because of those two things, I'd dare say putting additional muscle on up top is not going to help - we probably need to get him to focus on the leg weights and core strength exercises for the next couple of years.

Anyway, he's a 23 year old 6'8" bloke with good hands and who is great around his knees. I don't think you move those kind of blokes on unless you have a damn good replacement. Just have a look at what Drew Petrie did to Collingwood's second stringers (Cameron Wood and Chris Bryan) on Friday...

[bomberdonnie]

I didnt watch the game yesterday due to other sporting commitments but from what I have heard on here, TV and radio i am no more confident in Laycock becoming a player than I was about 2 months ago when I said that I had seen enough of him.

The guy oozes natural talent but so do a lot of people who dont even get a chance to play AFL because they lack the key ingredient... WANT

You have to WANT to win the game WANT the ball Want to put your body on the line WANT to run an extra 10 laps after training to stay fitter than your opponent WANT to sacrifice a million things to become a league footballer... Laycock doesn't seem to WANT anything!!

[ace076]

Filth, unfortunately with the state of our list, the list of players I wouldn't want to have a kick in the grand final scenario you mention is MUCH larger than those I would trust. Let's not forget even Lloydy missed a kicked after the siren to win us a game in 2002(?). Would you trust Stanton, NLM, Monfries, Hille, Peverill, Lovett, McPhee any more than Laycock. I seem to remember most of these players missing crucial shots that have cost us games over the last 5 years too.

[Doctor Fish]

I've noticed that Stantons late miss isn't mentioned.
Jetta's efforts aren't slammed.
Hille's effort when we were streaming forward in the last isn't mentioned.
Lucas slip slideing all over the place isn't mentioned.
NLM insitance on giving away stupid soft free kicks isn't mentioned.
But no Laycock cost us the game.

Couldn't agree more Bonce. Far out. This forum is quite biased at times. Some people always need a whipping boy I guess...

Well, Bradley, Henno and Bolton have moved on.

...As did Salmon Dom. We almost lost Scotty a couple years back too. Some Essendon "fans" wanted him gone. I wonder if the same people that boo Chook are the same ones that used to give it to Scotty. You'd think they'd learn at some point. Bunch of sooks...

[Doctor Fish]

Laycock was far from our worst today. Indeed, his tap work in the centre square was bloody good. He's still got work to do and areas of his game to improve, but as far as a back-up ruckman goes, he's doing his job at the moment.

As far as the muppets pointing out his mistakes today - EVERYONE makes mistakes. It's just that when Layock gets the ball, you are expecting him to make one so when he does, you remember it. Some of Hille's errors today were frightful; much worse than missing a set shot at goal. Ironically, despite Hille's and Stanton's monster games, their mistakes in the final quarter cost us more than Laycock's did.

Let's just give up on this Laycock bashing. He'll be around next year, and rightfully so. With some confidence, he'll become a very handy ruckman. IT wasn't so long ago that Hille was in exactly the same position. Bagging Laycock is just popularist crap.

It isn't every day I find myself agreeing with you Gringo...

=D>

[Ossie]

I've noticed that Stantons late miss isn't mentioned.
Jetta's efforts aren't slammed.
Hille's effort when we were streaming forward in the last isn't mentioned.
Lucas slip slideing all over the place isn't mentioned.
NLM insitance on giving away stupid soft free kicks isn't mentioned.
But no Laycock cost us the game.

Couldn't agree more Bonce. Far out. This forum is quite biased at times. Some people always need a whipping boy I guess...

No, it's not about having a whipping boy. Yes, other players mucked up, but Laycock ALWAYS mucks up. He plays like he's never played the game in his life, he plays stupid. That's the difference. AND ... he has no bottle. For a 6'6" bloke he gets pushed around at marking contests and when beaten he just stands there, didn't chase Simmonds when outmarked and has no appetite for the contest. And THAT's what pisses me off.

[Doctor Fish]

I've noticed that Stantons late miss isn't mentioned.
Jetta's efforts aren't slammed.
Hille's effort when we were streaming forward in the last isn't mentioned.
Lucas slip slideing all over the place isn't mentioned.
NLM insitance on giving away stupid soft free kicks isn't mentioned.
But no Laycock cost us the game.

Couldn't agree more Bonce. Far out. This forum is quite biased at times. Some people always need a whipping boy I guess...

No, it's not about having a whipping boy. Yes, other players mucked up, but Laycock ALWAYS mucks up. He plays like he's never played the game in his life, he plays stupid. That's the difference. AND ... he has no bottle. For a 6'6" bloke he gets pushed around at marking contests and when beaten he just stands there, didn't chase Simmonds when outmarked and has no appetite for the contest. And THAT's what pisses me off.

Fair enough. That's your opinion Ossie. But he doesn't ALWAYS muck up. That's the point...

[Ossie]

Couldn't agree more Bonce. Far out. This forum is quite biased at times. Some people always need a whipping boy I guess...

No, it's not about having a whipping boy. Yes, other players mucked up, but Laycock ALWAYS mucks up. He plays like he's never played the game in his life, he plays stupid. That's the difference. AND ... he has no bottle. For a 6'6" bloke he gets pushed around at marking contests and when beaten he just stands there, didn't chase Simmonds when outmarked and has no appetite for the contest. And THAT's what pisses me off.

Fair enough. That's your opinion Ossie. But he doesn't ALWAYS muck up. That's the point...

Ok, maybe not always, but at least a couple of either bad decisions or poor efforts each week. And it doesn't seem to be improving.

[Rossoneri]

I want to ask the Laycock supporters several questions:

- Would you want the ball in Laycocks hands, after yesterday, 5 points down in a GF, 1 minute to go, 30m out?

His set shot from 50 went straight through the middle and he normally is a very good shot from a set shot. Have seen him kick a number of goals from almost impossible angles. Funny thing confidence, isnt it.

- How often are you prepared to put up with his insipid efforts, particularly in defense and rucking, before you say enough is enough, that costs us goals? His "efforts" cost us 3 he missed and 3 he gave away yesterday.

How long did we put up with Hille's soft efforts? Now he is AA (or at least should be) Stanton was also very soft, now look at him. And I reckon Jetta cost us three goals too yesterday, where's a thread on him?

- It is now common knowledge around the AFL he is as soft as a gay guy on a all girl clothes optional beach. Voss intimated it last week commentating, and yesterday, Healy and T. Shaw, all hard at it players half his size verbally confirmed obliquely but in words that footballers would know. How good is that for the team?

A commentator with an opinion, what is the world coming to? Yes he is soft at this point in time, but so are many people who are down on confidence. Some go harder, some go into their shell fearing that by going in, they'll be spoiliing their own teammate. He has little confidence crashing a pack at the moment.

In previous posts, I supported a contract extension on condition he through himself into the gym and turned himself into the incredible hulk which would give him confidence in pack situations (wonder what his pinch and BMI tests are?). After yesterday, forget it. I'd rather have Froggy in the ruck. At least he gives a contest.

Ruckwork was ok yesterday, but I was still disappointed when he rocked up to PS training looking in poor shape.

Those who hang shit on Stants, Hille and Lloyd for missing goals and having brain farts, have a look at their stats = Laypenis. They missed because of tiredness...something Laycock most certainly wasn't. And Meggles....well he plays like one.

Maybe he is unfit, perhaps you should start another thread about Quinn? I have come to realise that we are coming from a very poor fitness base under Sheedy. We are playing a different style under knights and while Sheedy wanted to have big strong guys like the 84-85 teams, Knights wants a fast nimble team. The players have to almost re-start and re-train their bodies, this is probably why we have had so many soft-tissue injuries early on and possibly why at the moment, they are starting to subside.

Let it be known I am a massive Quinn critic, but I'd like to see how many soft-tissue injuries we get after say round 10 next year, playing a new game plan with bodies that are used to it.

Back to Laycock, he is unfit and until he turns up in October (yes, earlier than normal) looking supremely fit, then eh will always be #2. If you want to be #1, earn it. Hille has done that, the guy is now a f****** mountain and using his body to great use. But, two years ago, people wanted him traded and Laycock put as #1.

Give him one more contract, if nothing, then see ya later. he is only 23.

[Rossoneri]

Regardless if you have kicked 900 or 3, you should still kick easy set shot goals. That being said, I cant remember Lloyd missing an easy shot in the final quarter. Kick over the head was ambitious but he was just trying everything he could.

As for the Jetta misses, whether you have played 1 game or 300, running into an open goal, 15 meters out, you slot it home. No need to handpass, especially when Hille is the goal square pointing at the goals screaming at you to kick the goal.

Those commentators have played in 4 Premierships, won Brownlows, have been Captains of their Clubs

So has Robert Walls (minus the brownlow)

#1 or #2?..... doesn't matter....we just want him fit, strong and competitive and you won't hear boo from me. If a bloke is putting in, why criticise him?

I agree that Laycock is very disappointing at the moment, but the same thing was being said about Hille 2 years ago and look at where he is now. Hille seemed to have the heart of a pea a couple of years back and was soft as butter despite is massive frame. Now have a look at how he is going. Laycock is only 23 remember.